Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[sailfast]

They do both...
First they are much more efficient so less energy used yielding less polluting.
And, there is less pollution generated from making the electricity then running a diesel or gasoline engine.

 

[airbiscuit]

They'll be even better once we are finally and completely rid of dirty coal.

 

[Snobdds]

They do both...
First they are much more efficient so less energy used yielding less polluting.
And, there is less pollution generated from making the electricity then running a diesel or gasoline engine.

how do you know they're more efficient? The EV is only a consumer of power...it's the source of the power, electricity and battery composition, that need to be efficient.

how do you know an internal combustion engine has more polluting effects than electrical generation and battery manufacturing?

Just curious.

 

[California]

how do you know they're more efficient? The EV is only a consumer of power...it's the source of the power, electricity and battery composition, that need to be efficient.

how do you know an internal combustion engine has more polluting effects than electrical generation and battery manufacturing?

Just curious.

There was a link to the answer early in this thread. To summarize, electric motors convert energy to motion more efficiently so feeding fuel to a generating plant then charging an EV, instead of loading your fuel at a gas station, gives double or better the mpg. Then renewable fuels, hydro in particular, provide the electricity with minimal reliance on petroleum or coal, and minimal pollution. The information is out there and well publicized.

 

[Snobdds]

There was a link to the answer early in this thread. To summarize, electric motors convert energy to motion more efficiently so feeding fuel to a generating plant then charging an EV, instead of loading your fuel at a gas station, gives double or better the mpg. Then renewable fuels, hydro in particular, provide the electricity with minimal reliance on petroleum or coal, and minimal pollution. The information is out there and well publicized.

there was never a complete answer, in said article, of efficiencies for both electrical and battery inputs...hence the question.

Again, how are these claims being back by comprehensive data?

 

[groundcover]

Gale, let us know how your monthly utility bill changes after you’ve had the Leaf for a bit.

 

[drssg]

It seems to me that EV just move the pollution around, they don't actually solve any pollution issues.

While we can debate man's impact on the planet, there is no doubt regarding man's impact on the local environment in big cities.

ICE automobiles generate their pollution directly into the most heavily populated areas, and it's released about 12" above ground levels.

EV energy pollution is generated by power plants that disperse the pollution up into the atmosphere. I would say they definitely help the local environment, where pollution is an issue.

 

[California]

how do you know they're more efficient? The EV is only a consumer of power...it's the source of the power, electricity and battery composition, that need to be efficient. how do you know an internal combustion engine has more polluting effects than electrical generation and battery manufacturing?

Just curious.

Here's a thread on another site with links to some answers. I expect it will continue to be updated for a few days so check back.

One of the replies notes that results vary depending on the carbon/renewable ratio of energy sources in a region but the overall average across the US is around 80 mpg for an EV, 109 mpg in California, considering what was used to generate its electricity. As noted, generating plants aren't in the middle of urban areas where car tailpipe pollutants have the highest concentration. And there's the issue that we could ignore the chaos in the Middle East - and save the $trillions of taxpayer money we spend there to 'Protect Our Energy Future' - if we weren't so dependent on them.

Take a look at that thread.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Gale, let us know how your monthly utility bill changes after you’ve had the Leaf for a bit.

From 0% to 100% recharge costs $2.20 which would be max cost at the house. Mustart 40 amp charger reports raw AC power usage of 22 kw. We are at the 10 cents rate locally the last time I checked. That may change since my full charge range has increased by 20 miles since I moved from the 120 volt OEM charger power cord to the Mustart 40 amp cord. Of course 26 amp is the max draw because of the built in battery charging system from Nissan. One thing I am now observing is the meter of the amperage rate or charging is becoming more steady vs bouncing around like the first time I used the 240 volt Mustart power cord. The internal battery resistance may be dropping. Nissan recommends some charging from min to max to reset the memory of the battery management software. From what I read lithium ion batteries do not have memory issues but the BMS has that potential problem.

Today will be the 5th recharge after moving from the OEM 120 volt power cord which was used for the first 7 recharges after getting it home to now using the 40A Mustart 240 volt charger power cord. Since we are in the middle of the 3"-6" rain forecast I am not going out in the hard rain falling at this time. With the screen in the dash reporting a range of 70 miles when charged to 100% with the 120v OEM cord and has been climbing since moving to the 240v charging cord to 90 mile range of 90 miles as of yesterday I know something is going on. I am starting to think with the average mileage of 7K annually and the 120v charging cable showing a lot of usage and just loose in the trunk with the new charging bag all strapped in the lease owners may only used the 120v charging cable vs going out an buying a 240 volt cable or maybe they has 240 chargers at work, etc.

Another thing I have noticed is when reporting 70 mile range that a mile or two down the road it would drop to like a range of 60 but from port to port it was only good for 35-40 miles but that has really increased. A 45 mile run made 4 days ago that the dash reported % of ending charge of ZERO (Depth of Discharge or DOD) but yesterday the same run left me with a 20% battery reading. I do mainly WOT take offs that calls for a lot of flowing of electrons from the 30 kWh battery pack.

Once I get the battery as close to reporting a range of 107 miles at 100% state of charge (SOC) as possible I want to make a run over to WM in Paducah and see the results of using their DC rapid charger but I want to get the internal resistance of the battery as low as possible so to hopefully keep down the heat level of the battery pack which I will be watching live. Per my tractor mechanic last week he said one guy that he knows that used the DC rapid charger at WalMart in Paducah said the cost was about the same as filling up with gas. I think it is like $1 the first minute and a little less per minute after the first minute. I do not know what EV he was driving but I am guess Tesla and it was old enough he had some sick cells that he paid $800 to someone to repair but it failed to fix the battery issues.

My 2016 Nissan Leaf has well over a year on the power train. Batteries come with 8 years or 100K miles so I have nearly 5 years of Nissan coverage on our 30 kWh battery pack so I am taking my time to grasp this degradation cause before going for the software update because of comment by Nissan on the issue.

The car was reporting 9/12 state of battery health (SOH) bars when I bought it and still is at the same level. When I lose one more bar (8/12) then I can file for that to be addressed by Nissan but only after they install the 2018 software update that often gives back the missing bars and fixes the range readout to read 107 mile range at 100% SOC. When I bought our 2016 Leaf SL there was another 2016 Leaf SL with the same full options package and mileage for the same asking price but a different color of blue in Bloomington IL It showed 12/12 battery health bars. I do not know if it had the software update or just one that did not some with the software bug. A 3 year old/20K mileage car should have 12 bars showing based on the photos of dash readout I have seen.

I am making some progress on understanding the software issues with the 30 wKh Nissan batteries of 2016-2017 Leaf years. This problem has only been reported from cars in the USA or exported from the USA (TN) and not from UK built Leafs with the 30 kWh rapid battery degradation reported issues. It took 2 years for Nissan to come up with the cause and issue a recall to update the battery management software (BMS) bug. In their press release in 2018 they clearly stated it would NOT change the actual mileage range because on testing ones they had replaced before they found the software bug showed the removed OEM batteries where without defects.

 

[Jim Nelson]

At some point people are going to have to realize that there is a cost for maintaining a modern life style. In my life time the U.S. has come a long long way toward cleaning up after ourselves and I think we are improving all the time but there will always be some cost. The alternative is giving up some of our comforts or conveniences, which very few of us are willing to do.

I have installed solar water heater, solar p.v. system, all solar landscape lighting, and am still careful about usage. We still drive ic vehicles that are from 12 to 20 years old and would like to look at solar but the initial cost is too high and the return too uncertain at this time.