Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#291  
That's a question I wondered about.

Our 2016 Nissan Leaf seems to be about to same size as the Versa that is gas. It is about 700 heavier than the Versa. That's about the weight of the battery mounted under the car. By the way the battery disconnect is under the hump of the rear seat foot area.

I have never had a car that handled as well as our Leaf. Being a heavier car for its 5 passenger size with 650 pounds under the car is a positive factor I expect. I hope to never test the safety features.

I drive in B mode instead of D so the car starts Regen braking before I touch the brakes. Light brake pressure forces Max Regen braking. More later.

Well the live stock (mini horses and dogs) are good for the night.

Since only 500,000 Nissan Leafs have been sold world wide and the fact that most people see them and still think they can run on gas they are seldom make the news. Tesla on the other hand is not so confused with conventional cars. The ability to take off quickly I read has been a factor in some Tesla accidents because other drivers thought they had more time to pull out. When the battery is quite discharged the regen braking can be very effective in slowing the car without triggering any brake lights. Now if anyone is behind me I just tap the brakes to take off cruise or even if cruise is not set. Going from 55 to 35 without braking can happen pretty quickly with the Leaf in B mode.

I can not speak to other EV's but the Leaf controls very well and cuts a very tight circle. I see aggressively driving an EV with full torque on take off a bit like riding a motorcycle. You have to understand other drivers are just thinking another car so one has to keep that in mind all off the time. Even the 100 hp Leaf can get from 0-30 MPH quickly but can no do 100 MPH like most gas cars.

Safety seems to be on Nissan's mind as is the case of Tesla for sure. EV's are different in ways but as we see more and more the less out of place they will seem I expect.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#292  
I would really like to see an alternative fueled vehicle become a reality but when I read ,all too often, the statement that "For every 100 gallons of gasoline in a ICE 80 gallons is dumped into the atmosphere"it really turns me off. I think this is a huge exaggeration and totally unnecessary.
I was born and raised in the mountains of Co. and visited Los Angeles the first time in 1957,so I know what pollution is. It reminded me a lot of the pics California posted of India,but so much has been done it's not even close any more.
I truly believe that enough people are on board for clean air that exaggeration is not necessary.

Engine efficiency - Wikipedia

"Gasoline (petrol) engines
Modern gasoline engines have a maximum thermal efficiency of about 20% to 35% when used to power a car. In other words, even when the engine is operating at its point of maximum thermal efficiency, of the total heat energy released by the gasoline consumed, about 65-80% of total power is emitted as heat without being turned into useful work, i.e. turning the crankshaft.[1] Approximately half of this rejected heat is carried away by the exhaust gases, and half passes through the cylinder walls or cylinder head into the engine cooling system, and is passed to the atmosphere via the cooling system radiator.[2] Some of the work generated is also lost as friction, noise, air turbulence, and work used to turn engine equipment and appliances such as water and oil pumps and the electrical generator, leaving only about 20-35% of the energy released by the fuel consumed available to move the vehicle."

Jim as you can read I should have said for every 100 gallons of gas that I buy and burn in the car or truck it is like dumping 65 - 80 gallons of gas by-products into the atmosphere. I find that to be a turn off as well. That is why this last summer I decided to work to come up with 4 EV's over time for the family. The Leaf is more of a proof of concept to my old brain so I can start to grasp that there are ways for me to keep from dumping 65-80 of gas as waste into the atmosphere for every 100 gallons of gas that I burn.

While an EV is only about 85% efficient it is still more acceptable to me.

I just decided I was going to run with what clear science has proven and give up my emotional attachment to gas engines when it is practical to do so. I know I will be using gas/diesel engines for many years to come but not to just move one or two butts 15-25 miles one way locally on a daily bases.

Actually the Leaf is just a plain fun to drive. No engine noise is an awesome experience. Not wearing out the brake pads when braking is a plus in my mind because I am not big on downshifting automatic transmissions but I know they are built to do so today.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #293  
When the battery is quite discharged the regen braking can be very effective in slowing the car without triggering any brake lights. Now if anyone is behind me I just tap the brakes to take off cruise or even if cruise is not set. Going from 55 to 35 without braking can happen pretty quickly with the Leaf in B mode.
I read that the Teslas turn on the brake lights during regenerative braking. Are you sure your Leaf isn't doing the same?

That functionality makes sense to me. From the perspective of the person behind you, braking is braking, regardless of the exact mechanism.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #294  
Grumpcat I see Tesla is supporting the CHAdeMO charger standard as they move into markets where CHAdeMO standard rules like in Japan. This should be good for all parties as the article covers.

Tesla's Model 3 can now use DC fast chargers across the US | Engadget

Tesla uses whatever is prevalent in the countries they sell cars. Japan gets CHAdeMO, Europe gets their own connector. USA gets the Tesla unique connector because there was no other means of AC/DC on the same connector.

Loaned my CHAdeMO adapter to a local friend the week after his Model 3 got the firmware update to support. Said it worked great but 1) the high cost of kWh from whoever owned the CHAdeMO EVSEs he used, and 2) the minuscule 50kW rate. Some would not go that high. Tesla Superchargers will do 120kW but for the new version 3 systems will do 250kW.

When I ordered October 2013 there was an option for "twin chargers". Tesla installed two AC charge controllers doubling the AC charge rate from 9.6kW to 19.2kW. Required a 100A 240VAC circuit to provide continuous 80A. The option cost $3000 but included a $500 HPWC (the EVSE) capable of supporting these rates. I decided even at 50kW the $1000 CHAdeMO adapter would be more useful than 80A no matter CHAdeMO was not yet shipping. Took over a year before the CHAdeMO adapter shipped but by then it was "only" $450. I don't regret the purchase no matter it has effectively cost about $100 each time I have used it. All 4 or 5 times. Anyway if I didn't have it I'm pretty sure something would have happened that I would be inconvenienced getting a charge. Until Tesla built a Supercharger in Birmingham the CHAdeMO adapter was needed for the one CHAdeMO charger in the entire county at a Nissan dealer in Hoover.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #295  
I read that the Teslas turn on the brake lights during regenerative braking. Are you sure your Leaf isn't doing the same?

And when the Tesla does apply its brake lights the cartoon car on the instrument panel illuminates its brake lights. And headlights when the headlights are on. And doors when doors and trunks are open.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #296  
While an EV is only about 85% efficient it is still more acceptable to me.

I just decided I was going to run with what clear science has proven and give up my emotional attachment to gas engines when it is practical to do so. I know I will be using gas/diesel engines for many years to come but not to just move one or two butts 15-25 miles one way locally on a daily bases.

Actually the Leaf is just a plain fun to drive. No engine noise is an awesome experience. Not wearing out the brake pads when braking is a plus in my mind because I am not big on downshifting automatic transmissions but I know they are built to do so today.

As a retired engineer I say the above thinking is exactly the kind of ignorance that keeps things from ever getting done.

One must consider availability. If 65W is shed as heat and "only" 35W is converted to mechanical motion, then while this is "35% efficient" and sounds bad the real question is wether one can get more useful work out of a gallon of gasoline or not? The answer is "not realistically". So if you do not use that gallon of gasoline and get 35% of useful work out of it the alternative is that you get 0% use out of it.

The problem is while one can measure that 65% "wasted" energy that it isn't useable. Most is in the engine coolant at 180°F which just isn't hot enough over ambient temperatures to do much. Heat in the exhaust is needed to complete the thermodynamic cycle and get the exhaust out of the tailpipe.

Before the automobile the light hydrocarbons used to make gasoline were considered junk and flamed immediately at the refinery. The good stuff was heating and lamp oil, diesel today. We have a similar problem today with natural gas. Have too much. That much is burned at the well because idiot politicians won't allow pipelines to ship it to were it could be used. Tanking natural gas is very expensive. Takes a lot of energy to compress and even then it is not very dense. Same problem with hydrogen, only H2 can not be piped. 95% of H2 comes from natural gas because the process is cheap, natural gas is plentiful.

I say one must consider the resources consumed to bring energy to the user in usable format. I say one must consider $2.50/gallon for gasoline and what useful work one can get from it vs. $2.50 of electricity. In Gale's case no amount of electricity could trailer his new LEAF home, but gasoline got the job done. Could have found charging stations between here and there, and possibly taken 24 hours to go the distance. Or do it the way he did and burn some gasoline. How much is your time worth? Amazingly little is consumed producing gasoline because in that $2.50 perhaps 100 people got paid for their efforts.

When conditions are right one can use electricity cheaper than gasoline, and vice versa. And that is the beauty of Free Market Capitalism. No one is willing to work for free so at each stage of production the contribution of each is accumulated into the final cost of the product. If they can't do as well as another then the consumer is free to use the other. The failing is when simplistic voices latch on to terms such as "efficiency" and effect faux forces to force economics to do their will. That is Leftist economics where Those Wiser Than You decree what your effort is worth and what you must pay for goods all because They Are Smarter Than You Or The Market.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #297  
$2.50 gas?

Everything I see near an offramp is $4.05 to $4.55. (Northern California). Only a few cents cheaper back in the neighborhoods but you need the Gasbuddy app to identify today's bargain.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #298  
$2.50 gas?

Everything I see near an offramp is $4.05 to $4.55. (Northern California). Only a few cents cheaper back in the neighborhoods but you need the Gasbuddy app to identify today's bargain.
Ah, the wonders of CA prices...
I saw $2.53 yesterday, I will be paying $2.58 at a station on the way to work today.

Aaron Z
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #299  
$2.50 gas?

Everything I see near an offramp is $4.05 to $4.55. (Northern California). Only a few cents cheaper back in the neighborhoods but you need the Gasbuddy app to identify today's bargain.

I was being kind because 0.7 miles from my driveway gas was $2.289 yesterday. Find The Nearest Gas Stations & Cheapest Prices | Save On Gas

The extra $2 you pay in California covers the recursive idiocy of your government. The cost of just one burdensome regulation isn't paid just once but ripples through the production chain being passed to the consumer who then has to be paid more to retain the same standard of living and that ripples through those producing gasoline who now have to be paid more to keep their standard of living ...

Am saying the price one pays accurately represents the resources consumed. Speaking of "efficiency", California consumes twice the resources to deliver a gallon of gasoline as most of the rest of the country. There is more California Overhead in a gallon than what everyone else uses to make the whole thing.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #300  
2 dollars a gallon in Louisiana
 
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