Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[lman]

By the tim

First time I’ve actually seen one at a gas station. First gas station I’ve seen with charging stations. View attachment 706085

Time will tell if it's any cheaper after the station charges the fees to use their charging station.

 

[Hay Dude]

By the tim

Time will tell if it's any cheaper after the station charges the fees to use their charging station.

I can’t imagine it would be. Is cost to customer calculated on a $/minute basis? I bet the commercial charging stands are expensive to install, all that cost has to be recouped.

 

[aczlan]

And in some cases shift some high risk properties to the FED and therefore taxpayers

from article below

after Hurricane Michael ravaged the panhandle in October 2018, private insurers paid only 3.8% of the flood claims, according to an E&E News analysis of state and federal records. The insurance companies paid 169 flood claims, worth $9.7 million, related to Michael, according to data published by the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation in October.

The NFIP paid 4,270 claims, worth $224 million, related to the Category 5 storm, according to the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which runs the program.

The small number of flood claims paid by private insurers in an area where they have a large presence suggests "there was some cherry-picking going on," said Robert Hunter, director of insurance at the Consumer Federation of America and the former Texas state insurance commissioner.

E&E News: Insurers cherry-pick homes, leave flooded ones for feds

<p>Taxpayers could be forced to spend billions of dollars to bail out the federal government's flood program as private-sector insurers begin covering homes with little risk of flooding while clustering peril-prone properties in the indebted public program.</p>

www.eenews.net

Likely they did something similar to what the insurance companies on Long Island did after Katrina and said "if your finished floor height is not at least X feet above the flood plane height we will not insure you.
My family who lives near the water out there now has a house that they can park a full size truck under.

That is not unfair, it is most fair.

If food, clothing, housing, etc, was the same percentage of income for one with $10,000/year as for one with $100,000, as for one with $1,000,000, then why would the poor bother to try harder? Why would the rich bother? Marx thought the rich could be broken with a 25% income tax.

The whole point of increasing one's earnings is to be able to do more than the bare essentials. If a hamburger was $1 for you but $100 for me, why should I try?

As for the Leftist teaching of jealousy of "the rich" for supposedly low tax rates? Almost nobody would be employed were it not for capital investment. "Low tax rates" are due to Capital Gains Tax. The ignorant do not understand "the rich" pay capital gains on inflation. Buy an acre today for $2,000 then in 10 years if it didn't increase in real value it will sell for $2500 in 3% inflation and you have to pay capital gains on that $500 "profit" no matter $2500 is only worth $2000 of yore.

Another inconvenient fact is dividends are paid after-tax. "The rich" get paid dividends out of funds corporations have already paid tax on. Then the recipient pays tax yet again. In a "fair" world only one or the other would pay tax on dividends.

Also (IIRC), the vast majority of stocks are owned by mutual funds which are "little people's" retirement accounts (as well as pension funds, life insurance companies, etc, etc, etc).

Some problems with this.
1. Police shifts work 24 hours not 10 the vehicles are shared between shifts. (Maybe a few detectives and chiefs work just the day shift). Patrols idling in Texas would have to utilize the A/C 9 months of the year.
2. Ambulances go to the location of the sick/injured usually within 20 miles but the run to the hospital that can accept certain patients can be 50 miles one way. Again they work 24/7 and the Ambulance would have to be put out of service during recharge.
3. Fire trucks are scattered to reduce response time, but if there is a large working fire the pumps will have to pump thousands of gallons an hour all day/night.

1. Depends on the department, around here County Sheriffs Deputies are issued a take home car, State Police pickup their car at the barracks (not sure if its assigned or not) and Towns are a mix between the two. Cities usually do not have assigned cars due to staffing needs.

2. Yep

3. I could see a battery powered machine being useful for a rescue truck (for car accidents and the like), especially if you have a diesel motor that can also run the pump, but electric only as a pumper, not so much.

Aaron Z

 

[Jchonline]

The price of solar electricity has dropped 89% in 10 years

In 2009, building a new solar farm was 223% more expensive than building a new coal plant. Now, it’s flipped.

www.fastcompany.com

True that. Some people could win the lottery, marry a 23 year old supermodel and be elected king, yet still spend all day complaining because their wallet is too heavy and their wife can’t cook a good meatloaf.

That is a solar farm, which is very different than an individual system. Go out and find me a decently manufactured 12KW solar array that is $0.38/watt…..I would like to see it. With solar you also must have storage to compare it to Nuclear, Coal, NG, etc. So when you add production + storage to the cost of Solar, you would probably be way over the cost of these other options. The highest cost with Solar is storage, not production.

 

[PuffyC]

That is a solar farm, which is very different than an individual system. Go out and find me a decently manufactured 12KW solar array that is $0.38/watt…..I would like to see it. With solar you also must have storage to compare it to Nuclear, Coal, NG, etc. So when you add production + storage to the cost of Solar, you would probably be way over the cost of these other options. The highest cost with Solar is storage, not production.

That’s representative for residential systems too:

Solar Power Prices Sink In The Age Of COVID

Solar module prices in the US and around the world are plummeting, and this has far-reaching implications for the global transition from the age of hydrocarbons to the age of electrification.

www.forbes.com

I was simply commenting about how the price of solar has dropped. Here’s a chart of costs from the EIA:

You obviously can’t maintain those kinds of decreases forever but the DOE expects prices to approach 2 cents per kWh by 2030. If you look at the massive investments being made and who’s involved, it’s not hard to see that solar will be a dead no-brainer in less than 10 years. For many it already is.

 

[PuffyC]

By the tim

Time will tell if it's any cheaper after the station charges the fees to use their charging station.

It will be interesting to see how that plays out. The base cost of the electricity per mile is roughly half that of an ICE today so there’s a lot of room to maintain margins, although gas stations don’t make money from selling gas, they make it selling Big Gulps and hot dogs.

I would be surprised if gas stations even remain a thing. It’s dead simple to install a charging station vs gasoline and diesel tanks so they’re going in a lot of places people go already, and most let you charge for free just to get you to shop there. Good things don’t last forever but here’s an interesting article about some guy who never paid to charge his EVs for three years and why giving away free EV charging still makes those places money:

Why There's A Ton Of Free EV Charging In My Region - CleanTechnica

Support CleanTechnica's work through a Substack subscription or on Stripe. After I wrote an article about spending $0 charging a couple of electric cars over nearly 3 years in Florida, some commenters chimed in with “friendly” (or not so friendly) criticism that I shouldn’t be grubbing off of...

cleantechnica.com

 

[3930dave]

It was touched on recently, but I wanted to start my post by thanking Gale for Walking the Walk.

It's always been important, but esp. so in this Locked-To-Screen age.... Gale jumped in, got his feet wet, and shared his Leaf experiences, and more importantly, all the aspects of researching new technologies. Thanks again, for kicking this thread off, and maintaining it.

My random occasional posts may convey the wrong vibe..... much as I prefer a large toolbox when tacking a complex job, I would like to see an array of transport technologies in use in the future markets.

With enough effort and swearing, I could perhaps fix a major engine problem with just my Leatherman and some baling wire, but I'd really rather not have somebody else paint me into that corner.... and that somewhat feels like what is being Sold Today...

EV has it's place, as does ICE for the near future. Sometimes wishes/intents get mixed with evangelism, and some data gets lost in confirmation-bias....... late-cycle MPFI injected gas engines from any decent manuf. ran extremely clean, and I'd bet serious (to me) money that they would test way cleaner than GDI engines with only a year or 2 of actual road-time. (Meaning, on an actual dyno/tailpipe test).

Some of my irritation with what is being positioned/sold recently is the mixed messages.....

Me: Drive an ICE vehicle to work and buy groceries = Bad.

Billionaires: Launch Space Toys just Because = Good.

UK peasants: No future ICE vehicles for you.

UK Flying: All good, nothing to see here. (From the bottom section of the article:

"And only this week the UK government told people that they don't need to reduce flying because technology will solve the emissions problem - a notion that most experts consider a gamble."

Europe floods: Rescuers race to find survivors as hundreds remain missing

What I'd like to see happen is significant funding going into ONE global super-computer climate modelling project..... but then again, I've always been a bit of a dreamer......

..... BUT, a show-me-the-data one

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

The highest cost with Solar is storage, not production.

Storage..... There's the Thing........

It matters. A lot. Strategic Petroleum Reserve ring a bell ?

Batteries have progressed (and will continue to do so) in the last 20 years, but still have a very long way to go.

I like new-tech - when it does What I Want, Reliably, and at a $ point I can live with. YMMV, on these criteria.

Waving a Magic Wand..... Future Dave would be living off-grid, cracking Hydrogen to drive (etc) with, from PV and other local sources. True zero emmissions, and zero utility bills.

I don't have the $ resources to pull that off now..... but that ^ would be my personal energy-nirvana.....

Today, I can readily stock-pile enough gasoline and diesel to see me through 4-8 weeks of emergency conditions.

With today's tech, I don't have an economical way to do that without fossil fues - just to meet my basic needs, let alone having to charge an EV for transport.

Many of us in advanced countries are so used to high-availability electricity grids that we don't think about them, at all.

But, we should.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I tell my kids who are about to turn 24 that we are in no man land on what will pan out of the current state of flux.

By the time they turn 35 there should be some clarity in a financial sense energy wise.

Roof top solar installed today is going to lead to to some foreclosures. The ads running about Free Money for homeowners who put on roof top solar indicates to me to expect Fraudulent activities are in play.

Some of these homes may rot down due to leaks. These 30 year warranties from defunct solar installers will be worthless.

Lenders may get stuck with the cost of making some of these homes resellable.

In my view the risk to buy an EV from an EV start up like GM, Ford, etc is over top until they control their battery supply and stop lossing money on EVs.

EVs will be here to stay when they can be purchased for $15K and will last 15 years.

Charging at home is the ONLY option I have today.

Today when it comes to renewables and EVs we have a ton of questions and next to no answers.

 

[Jchonline]

It will be interesting to see how that plays out. The base cost of the electricity per mile is roughly half that of an ICE today so there’s a lot of room to maintain margins, although gas stations don’t make money from selling gas, they make it selling Big Gulps and hot dogs.

I would be surprised if gas stations even remain a thing. It’s dead simple to install a charging station vs gasoline and diesel tanks so they’re going in a lot of places people go already, and most let you charge for free just to get you to shop there. Good things don’t last forever but here’s an interesting article about some guy who never paid to charge his EVs for three years and why giving away free EV charging still makes those places money:

Why There's A Ton Of Free EV Charging In My Region - CleanTechnica

Support CleanTechnica's work through a Substack subscription or on Stripe. After I wrote an article about spending $0 charging a couple of electric cars over nearly 3 years in Florida, some commenters chimed in with “friendly” (or not so friendly) criticism that I shouldn’t be grubbing off of...

cleantechnica.com

We will have to see how it scales. Rough math we have 285 mil registered vehicles in the US. If 40% of these are EV with say a 90kwh battery and we say on average charge 40% per day (hopefully it is less). That would be an additional 5.15 billion kilowatts (5.15 million megawatts, 515,000 gigawatts) of electricity needed from the grid per day. The average nuclear plant makes about 15 gigawatts per day. So we would need another 34,000 nuclear power plants to meet the demand. Has anyone seen real solutions to this issue?