Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[WinterDeere]

There are many "Block Heater" Vehicle and sometimes Home Fires, up here in Canada. The first thing an Insurance Adjuster looks at is the Extension Cord... And a Block Heater is only 400-500 watts

Fires resulting from use of extension cords at 400 - 500 watts likely have nothing to do with wire gauge, and everything to do with cordset condition, including plugs and receptacles. Use a chewed up cord in a loose receptacle, and you're going to increase your likelihood of fire, no matter what gauge of wire was used in the making of that cord.

That said, some block heaters are rated as high as 1500 watts. Those would require attention to the gauge of cord used to connect them. It's likely your observance of fires related to block heaters is related to some combination of damaged cords and these higher-wattage heaters that actually do require heavier cords.

 

[Grumpycat]

Source? I hope you mean due to either deterioration or improper installation. Any NEMA 5-15R is rated to handle 15 amps all day and night, when properly installed and maintained.

Yup, sure are "rated" to handle 12A all day and night, 15A peak.

But as you say, "properly installed" and "properly maintained". To which I would add, "kept clean". And we have to consider the junk imports which Home Depot and Lowes used to sell for 50¢.

Surf EV forums. Lots of burned outlets.

In general manufacturers get certified by UL, ETL, CSA, and EU, then perform product testing themselves. Write the reports. Provide the reports for review. But rarely get audited.

Couple decades ago we were designing a product around X-10 home controls. At our low volume the prudent thing to do was take an off the shelf product apart and put it inside ours. This required recertification. We had to pay an independent lab to do the testing, but we had already tested ourselves and didn't believe it would pass. It didn't because the currently marketed device emitted far more trash than allowed. Our independent lab forced an audit of the original product which didn't turn out good for the manufacturer.

 

[Grumpycat]

He did say the local Toyota dealership had an EV now and that the sales guy didn't speak highly about it.

Is widely believed Elon Musk's determination for Tesla to own and run all "dealers" is based on how badly Toyota and Ford dealers treated their initial hybrids and EVs.

Toyota dealers badmouthed the Prius until they found it was a hot seller they could add $4000 to the sticker and still sell their full allotment.

 

[Grumpycat]

Not true.
Toyota offers a range of models with different prices. The 2022 C-HR starts at $23,880 and the 2022 Camry starts at $25,3951. The Toyota 4Runner starts at $39,555, the GR86 starts at $28,400, and the Avalon starts at $36,8252.

Base price on sticker is nothing close to the average paid out the door.

In the South East (under the heavy hand of the infamous Southeast Toyota Distributor) you can not find a base model Toyota anywhere. SET is infamous for mandatory "distributor fee" of $700 or more added to the sticker. Infamous for $500 "paint sealant" and similarly priced pinstripes. They are also the one who etches VIN on glass and certain precious body panels for another exorbitant fee.

 

[WinterDeere]

In general manufacturers get certified by UL, ETL, CSA, and EU, then perform product testing themselves. Write the reports. Provide the reports for review. But rarely get audited.

Yep... as an EE, I've been part of product testing and certification for most of my working life, and have seen where some manufacturers can make a business on "barely adequate". We can agree that the thing you're buying with higher quality cordsets and receptacles is margin. When plug contacts oxidize, or receptacle contacts anneal and their contact force is reduced, you'll be glad the whole rig isn't already operating near its limit. That larger AWG wire which is total overkill when plug and receptacle are in good condition, can act as an unintended but beneficial heat sink when the adjacent components degrade. There's value in margin, in any low-risk but high-penalty scenario.

Things often boil down to the conscientious versus the oblivious, in that the user who actually takes the extra few seconds to put their hand on a plug and feel if it's getting warm, or replaces it when it starts to get ratty, is more likely to avoid all such problems. Those who don't will often suffer a bite, no matter what gauge wire is in that worn out and chewed up cord they're plugging into the too-loose 50 year old receptacle in their garage.

 

[txdon]

You will see your error when you get caught up on current automotive facts concerning Toyota average selling price in the USA.

Not all Toyota buyers are bottom feeders. Look at the $60Kto $90K priced Toyota's.

Toyota Executive Expects Average New-Car Prices to Exceed $50K in 2023

Jack Hollis, head of sales for Toyota North America, believes strong demand and continued supply-chain woes will see new-car prices rise higher.

www.caranddriver.com

So let me get this straight, If one buys a new Toyota for less than $50,000 they are bottom feeders? Or if anyone buys any vehicle for less than $50,000 they are bottom feeders? Sounds like Tesla owners really try to shame anyone who spends less than they did on a new vehicle.

 

[bnold]

Play nice children…

 

[tacticalturnip]

So let me get this straight, If one buys a new Toyota for less than $50,000 they are bottom feeders? Or if anyone buys any vehicle for less than $50,000 they are bottom feeders? Sounds like Tesla owners really try to shame anyone who spends less than they did on a new vehicle.

That's the impression I get. Of course, this threads nothing but a big Tesla circle jerk, so I don't expect anything different.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

If I read this right for full self-driving to work as well as possible will need to wait to the generation of Tesla's that come out with the fourth generation self-driving hardware? It is to be in the new smaller $25K Tesla coming in 2025.

 

[wawajake]

So let me get this straight, If one buys a new Toyota for less than $50,000 they are bottom feeders? Or if anyone buys any vehicle for less than $50,000 they are bottom feeders? Sounds like Tesla owners really try to shame anyone who spends less than they did on a new vehicle.

Your absolutely right ! About 30 pages ago on this thread I called Gale out on that same issue , so this is not a one time emotional slip, this is obviously a typical attitude ! ......but not surprised, it has been alluded to in other demographic reviews of the typical EV customer , in some "Car review" type websites too.