Battery based vehicles of today and tomorrow pt 2

[shooterdon]

Not even Elon can save EVs from disaster

Never was the old adage “don’t buy the prototype, buy the redesign” more appropriate. Motorists who bought an electric vehicle in the belief that it would hold its value better than a petrol or diesel must be feeling a little sore. According to the AA, the secondhand values of the 20 most...

finance.yahoo.com

Yes, the cutting edge of technology is normally the bleeding edge as well.

The next five years will be telling.

 

[Grumpycat]

Not even Elon can save EVs from disaster

Never was the old adage “don’t buy the prototype, buy the redesign” more appropriate. Motorists who bought an electric vehicle in the belief that it would hold its value better than a petrol or diesel must be feeling a little sore. According to the AA, the secondhand values of the 20 most...

finance.yahoo.com

“Boo hoo hoo. Used EV prices are down! The sky is falling! Death spiral!”

ICE prices are down too. No mention? Inconvenient Fact. All prices are down from the COVID Insanity.

So you have a vehicle, a property, or a watch, for which the liquidation value is falling faster than one anticipated? Does it still fulfill the task it was purchased to perform? You thought the value received was good at time of purchase so what are you worrying about?

 

[wawajake]

“Boo hoo hoo. Used EV prices are down! The sky is falling! Death spiral!”

ICE prices are down too. No mention? Inconvenient Fact. All prices are down from the COVID Insanity.

So you have a vehicle, a property, or a watch, for which the liquidation value is falling faster than one anticipated? Does it still fulfill the task it was purchased to perform? You thought the value received was good at time of purchase so what are you worrying about?

Ask the stock markets why they are worried......hmmm Motor Mouth: Tesla’s stock is in the toilet and it’s Elon’s fault

 

[riptides]

Tesla --> Elon ---> Baggage .

No escaping it.

 

[Jchonline]

Not really. Is just a matter of being willing to carry enough battery. Somebody goes off and does it to grab headlines, fool some gullible investors, the sun rises, the sun sets.

Weight matters. It wears roads, puts more stress on bridges, wears tires, and could make the vehicle larger. On the flip side it makes EVs safer in a crash against an equivalent sized vehicle. Good and bad. You have a “battery pack” of basically a few thousand small AA batteries in your Tesla car….nothing ingenious about that technology. We need something truly breakthrough to convince most of the public….like a battery that weighs 1/4 as much and takes up 4 times less space than Li tech.

Energy density (indirectly) is one of the main factors holding back the majority of Americans from considering EVs. Lithium batteries of today have incredibly low energy density. Today's Li batteries are around 250 Wh/kg. Tesla is 270 Wh/kg. Gasoline is 13000 Wh/kg. So about 48 times more energy dense. A battery that has 1000 Wh/kg would reduce that to 13 times.

Weight matters even more when discussing large vehicle payload numbers...because the weight of batteries in a semi take away from the max allowed on the road. You have 80,000 lbs to work with. A 900kwh battery like in the Tesla semi weighs around 15,000 lbs. A 300 gal diesel tank on a semi filled up weighs 2100 lbs. That is 13000 less lbs of cargo you can carry with the Tesla. That might not always matter if the payload would not be at max capacity anyway...but if you need it the Tesla Semi is a compromise. Hence the dire need for new battery technology.

 

[sd455dan]

Ask the stock markets why they are worried......hmmm Motor Mouth: Tesla’s stock is in the toilet and it’s Elon’s fault

From the article:
the ever-broadening realization, even amongst its fans, that Tesla really is just a car company. ??

That is a bit of an Overstatement.


Tesla has leading charging station tech/manufacture including soon to be put into production, 96% efficient wireless charging, power storage, inverter tech, grid back up, Software including AI, battery design and manufacture, Robotics, Solar, Designing and building the machine that builds the machine etc.

No other car company has shared aerospace tech to draw from like Tesla does with SpaceX either.

Being Very vertically Integrated in general is another advantage.

Stock is down right now no doubt, but Tesla is not sitting still behind the scenes.

ps. Tried my free FSD supervised and I am impressed, It does drive decent as far as the town trips I have made with it.

Ask the stock markets why they are worried......hmmm Motor Mouth: Tesla’s stock is in the toilet and it’s Elon’s fault

 

[NoTrespassing]

From the article:
the ever-broadening realization, even amongst its fans, that Tesla really is just a car company. ??

That is a bit of an Overstatement.


Tesla has leading charging station tech/manufacture including soon to be put into production, 96% efficient wireless charging, power storage, inverter tech, grid back up, Software including AI, battery design and manufacture, Robotics, Solar, Designing and building the machine that builds the machine etc.

No other car company has shared aerospace tech to draw from like Tesla does with SpaceX either.

Being Very vertically Integrated in general is another advantage.

Stock is down right now no doubt, but Tesla is not sitting still behind the scenes.

ps. Tried my free FSD supervised and I am impressed, It does drive decent as far as the town trips I have made with it.

I have a couple problems with the company. One, they make a lot of money off of other companies thanks to green legislation, those other companies are not in a position to avoid the penalties they're paying. Two, the stock has underperformed the market for three years straight and doesn't pay dividends. I have no doubt the stock will come back and I'm trying to figure out an entry point. I think it has more room to drop, probably down to 150. If that happens I'll buy some and become a cheerleader

 

[Grumpycat]

Weight matters. It wears roads, puts more stress on bridges, wears tires, and could make the vehicle larger. On the flip side it makes EVs safer in a crash against an equivalent sized vehicle. Good and bad. You have a “battery pack” of basically a few thousand small AA batteries in your Tesla car….nothing ingenious about that technology. We need something truly breakthrough to convince most of the public….like a battery that weighs 1/4 as much and takes up 4 times less space than Li tech.

Energy density (indirectly) is one of the main factors holding back the majority of Americans from considering EVs. Lithium batteries of today have incredibly low energy density. Today's Li batteries are around 250 Wh/kg. Tesla is 270 Wh/kg. Gasoline is 13000 Wh/kg. So about 48 times more energy dense. A battery that has 1000 Wh/kg would reduce that to 13 times.

Weight matters even more when discussing large vehicle payload numbers...because the weight of batteries in a semi take away from the max allowed on the road. You have 80,000 lbs to work with. A 900kwh battery like in the Tesla semi weighs around 15,000 lbs. A 300 gal diesel tank on a semi filled up weighs 2100 lbs. That is 13000 less lbs of cargo you can carry with the Tesla. That might not always matter if the payload would not be at max capacity anyway...but if you need it the Tesla Semi is a compromise. Hence the dire need for new battery technology.

Not relevant. No one asks how much the 1300 mile EV weighs, it captures the simpleton media’s attention, and yours.

No Tesla ever used “small AA batteries.” You are confused by an April 1 “advertisement” of an Mercedes-Benz EV.

Originally Tesla used type 18650 cells. Bigger than AA. (AA would be 15505.) And was quite ridiculed at the time because Everybody Knew Large Cells Are The Only Solution. Research the Chevron/Texaco/Cobasys lawsuit against Panasonic and Toyota about 2006. Panasonic successfully built large cell NiMH which was used in the limited production hybrid Toyota Highlander. Panasonic/Toyota lost. Chevron was never able to economically build large cells using their own patents.

Other EVs to this day continue to try to use much larger cells than Tesla. Tesla/Panasonic is currently building 2170 and 4860 cells.

 

[sd455dan]

I have a couple problems with the company. One, they make a lot of money off of other companies thanks to green legislation, those other companies are not in a position to avoid the penalties they're paying. Two, the stock has underperformed the market for three years straight and doesn't pay dividends. I have no doubt the stock will come back and I'm trying to figure out an entry point. I think it has more room to drop, probably down to 150. If that happens I'll buy some and become a cheerleader

The Car is performing far better than my Tesla stock right now. Yep down a few bucks.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I have a couple problems with the company. One, they make a lot of money off of other companies thanks to green legislation, those other companies are not in a position to avoid the penalties they're paying. Two, the stock has underperformed the market for three years straight and doesn't pay dividends. I have no doubt the stock will come back and I'm trying to figure out an entry point. I think it has more room to drop, probably down to 150. If that happens I'll buy some and become a cheerleader

Why do think you are technically or emotionally qualified to invest in Tesla when your first listed problem with the company is not based on known facts?

Why do you claim the CEOs of other companies are not as smart as Elon Musk since they all work under the same set of laws?