Best battery

[Preacher1951]

I have a 55 hp TYM that has an Interstate battery that has lasted little over 7 years. (pretty good). I realize that there are only a few companies that make batteries and they just put the various name brand on the different batteries. Just wondering which battery seems to be holding up the best. Walmart has best price and warranty...

Interstate is a great battery. I've had good service from them. However, my overall preferance is Duralast Gold from Autozone. I have never been dis-satisfied with the Duralast Gold Batteries.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Interstate is a great battery. I've had good service from them. However, my overall preferance is Duralast Gold from Autozone. I have never been dis-satisfied with the Duralast Gold Batteries.

I have a friend who used to work for AutoZone, he could get those batts cheeeep at cost, and every time he wanted to buy something from me, I always got him to throw a Duralast batt. in on the deal. Two of them took a dump in less than two years and he got AZ to replace them, one of the replacements lasted less than three years and the other is still in a tractor and works, until it gets really cold out, then it's out of poop and needs a boost.

I just bought an Interstate to replace it, we will see how long IT last...

SR

 

[5030]

I have a friend who used to work for AutoZone, he could get those batts cheeeep at cost, and every time he wanted to buy something from me, I always got him to throw a Duralast batt. in on the deal. Two of them took a dump in less than two years and he got AZ to replace them, one of the replacements lasted less than three years and the other is still in a tractor and works, until it gets really cold out, then it's out of poop and needs a boost.

I just bought an Interstate to replace it, we will see how long IT last...

SR

If you followed my 'rules of the road' post, it should last a while. A flooded cell or AGM battery's biggest enemy is vibration and low water and even the 'maintenance free' ones can get low on water. I always pry off the caps and check them, especially during hot weather.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Followup question: At what point is society victimizing Walmart rather than the other way around? I don't break things on purpose, therefore with all the other things i know about Walmart i am a LONG way from feeling bad for them about battery warranties.

Even then, it's maybe 60% percent policy and the other 40% is who you happen to talk to at that moment. They don't even stick to their own policies so it doesn't much matter what it is, in my opinion.


Battery sellers will generally accept any kind of lead acid battery as a core return for a car battery. Makes sense because a happy customer is worth more than the difference in scrap money between two different sizes of lead battery. The actual accepting of cores is just a necessary evil to go along the states allowing them to charge for not turning in cores in the first place. I'm sure most retailers wish everyone paid the core and didn't give them a battery to have to deal with at all. But it's been an INCREDIBLY successful 'sin tax' because now something like 99% of car batteries get recycled, which is tremendously important when you look at the health effects of lead in the environment.


I agree with cheapest, followed by heaviest. At this point im usually buying Walmart value line and marine batteries which i expect to outlive their short warranties anyway, but i guess i would put length of warranty in there at 3rd place.


Keeping lead acids alive comes down to a few major things followed by a bunch of minor ones. Do not let it sit at less than fully charged for long periods. Don't let it discharge deeply preferably ever, but as little as possible is nice. Engine cranking usually doesn't qualify as a deep discharge because duration is so short. They live longer in cold climates, so cooler storage generally makes them last longer. The less vibration, the longer they last. Avoid buildup of filth on top of the case between terminals because it WILL conduct electricity in many cases (poke it with a meter, it's measurable) and present a drain.

So a battery that's stored in a cool/cold place, allowed to fully recharge after each drain, and generally used shallowly and infrequently, will live a long time.

I guess you better define "cold".



I can tell you that -30F will kill most wet cell batteries "stone cold". And I'm not even talking about -45F.

 

[Vigo327]

I never did understand the cheap battery theory. If the battery doesn't work, neither does anything else. Doesn't that mean that the battery needs to be the best rather than the cheapest?

Sort of, but price isn't tied that closely to quality in batteries. My opinion is that car batteries are one of those items where buying the higher priced version with the longer warranty is basically just pre-paying for most or all of the replacement battery they figure they'll have to give you during the warranty. If you never come back, they win big. Sort of like how when a cheap used car lot puts a down payment on a car that's ~40% of the total price, it's because that's all they've got in it and if you make the first payment they're in the black!

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the batteries are built 'the same' and are sorted to the different price/warranty levels based on initial testing. Ones that do worse out of the gate get sold cheaper, ones that do better get sold higher. I have nothing to back that up, just saying i wouldn't be surprised. To me the main 'upgrade' paths are not paying more, it's either A. stuff the space with a physically larger battery, or B. Get an AGM instead of a flooded cell batt.

I guess you better define "cold".



I can tell you that -30F will kill most wet cell batteries "stone cold". And I'm not even talking about -45F.

You're right, i have absolutely no experience with those temps. From what i know about lead acid batteries, the freezing point of their electrolyte solution ranges from 20f when discharged, to -80f when fully charged. Fully charged rarely happens in vehicles because while you can get a lead acid up to ~80% quickly, getting the last 20% takes forever in terms of running an engine and even if you get there, self-discharge means it won't stay there. So figure most batteries sitting in most vehicles right now could not make it to -80 without freezing. And then there's electrolyte 'stratification' where in the absence of any vehicle movement or aggressive charging (bubbling/gassing) to mix everything up, it will separate somewhat by density with the denser stuff at the bottom and less dense at the top. The less dense freezes earlier. So a battery that has been sitting for a while without being charged recently might subtract another chunk of freeze resistance. And i'm not saying freeze as in solid, but i'd bet (im no chemist) that the chemical reaction that needs to take place between the electrolyte and the plates slows to basically nothing once the water starts to 'slush'. Generally if it ever does freeze solid you know because it permanently bulges the case.

One thing i have no idea of.. is if you get a battery so cold the electrolyte starts to freeze and the output drops near to nothing.. as long as the freeze didn't bend/break anything about the plates, wouldn't it 'bounce back' when it warms up? I would think so. But again, i have no firsthand experience with those temps!!

 

[5030]

Get an AGM instead of a flooded cell batt.

The ONLY difference between an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) and a flooded cell is the mat absorbs and suspends the electrolyte against the lead alloy plates. Other than that, they are identical and have the same issues (plate sulfation resulting in the plates shedding oxide and eventually shorting out internally. I cannot see paying a premium price for glass wool mat. So long as the lead alloy plates have the proper separators between them they are just as good as. My other issue with an AGM Jar is, if it gases off and looses some of the water, you cannot add any because you have no idea what is full and what is overfilled.

 

[5030]

One thing i have no idea of.. is if you get a battery so cold the electrolyte starts to freeze and the output drops near to nothing.. as long as the freeze didn't bend/break anything about the plates, wouldn't it 'bounce back' when it warms up? I would think so. But again, i have no firsthand experience with those temps!!

Neither do I but I do know that a fully charged flooded cell jar in good condition can withstand -30 degrees (f) with no issue other than the CCA output will drop appreciably. The rate of discharge depends entirely on the chemical reaction between the lead alloy plates and the sulfuric acid electrolyte. The colder it is, the slower the chemical reaction. Why, when replacing the battery in your tractor, truck or car, always buy the largest battery that will fit in the tray and the heaviest one you can get because the heavier it is, the more lead alloy plates it has and the more plates also provide more cold cranking amps too.

If I have a old battery than I'm gonna turn in for a new one, I always drain the electrolyte out and put it in a plastic milk bottle. Stuff makes excellent drain cleaner.

 

[John_Mc]

The ONLY difference between an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) and a flooded cell is the mat absorbs and suspends the electrolyte against the lead alloy plates. Other than that, they are identical and have the same issues (plate sulfation resulting in the plates shedding oxide and eventually shorting out internally. I cannot see paying a premium price for glass wool mat. So long as the lead alloy plates have the proper separators between them they are just as good as. My other issue with an AGM Jar is, if it gases off and looses some of the water, you cannot add any because you have no idea what is full and what is overfilled.

Actually, AGM batteries are less susceptible to damage from vibration (which is a concern on many tractors), they have a lower self-discharge rate (so stand up to sitting idle for extended periods without a battery maintainer connected better than flooded lead acid), good AGM batteries use recombinant technology - under conditions of normal use, hydrogen and oxygen gases created by electrolysis are converted back into water inside the battery instead of venting into the air outside of the battery, retaining the electrolyte in the battery (yes, it's possible to abuse them and force them to vent: a safety feature intended to reduce the chances of the case bursting when the battery is abused.) AGM batteries have lower internal resistance so are capable of being recharged more quickly. Generally, AGM batteries can withstand deep cycling better than lead acid. The main disadvantage of AGM batteries is the higher up-front cost.

Also, many AGM batteries have higher recommended charge and float voltages than flooded lead-acid batteries (approx 0.5 V higher). The voltage is close enough that it's not really a performance difference in typical use. It is something to pay attention to if you are leaving one connected to a battery maintainer for extended periods, A maintainer with a charging profile that matches the recommendations of the battery manufacturer will extend the life of the battery.

The Optima YellowTop AGM battery installed in my tractor is now 6.5 years old and still going strong. My tractor is 21 years old. For the previous 15 years I used flooded lead-acid batteries. The best one lasted 5 years. The rest had right around 3 years of usable life each. It seemed to make no difference if I used an OEM battery, Interstate, Wallmart, what have you. I got sick of the constant battery issues and sprang for the Optima. I've been happy so far. I am glad I got it before prices shot up (a few years after I bought it), but I'd buy another one, even at today's prices.

 

[5030]

Actually, AGM batteries are less susceptible to damage from vibration (which is a concern on many tractors), they have a lower self-discharge rate (so stand up to sitting idle for extended periods without a battery maintainer connected better than flooded lead acid), good AGM batteries use recombinant technology - under conditions of normal use, hydrogen and oxygen gases created by electrolysis are converted back into water inside the battery instead of venting into the air outside of the battery, retaining the electrolyte in the battery (yes, it's possible to abuse them and force them to vent: a safety feature intended to reduce the chances of the case bursting when the battery is abused.) AGM batteries have lower internal resistance so are capable of being recharged more quickly. Generally, AGM batteries can withstand deep cycling better than lead acid. The main disadvantage of AGM batteries is the higher up-front cost.

Also, many AGM batteries have higher recommended charge and float voltages than flooded lead-acid batteries (approx 0.5 V higher). The voltage is close enough that it's not really a performance difference in typical use. It is something to pay attention to if you are leaving one connected to a battery maintainer for extended periods, A maintainer with a charging profile that matches the recommendations of the battery manufacturer will extend the life of the battery.

The Optima YellowTop AGM battery installed in my tractor is now 6.5 years old and still going strong. My tractor is 21 years old. For the previous 15 years I used flooded lead-acid batteries. The best one lasted 5 years. The rest had right around 3 years of usable life each. It seemed to make no difference if I used an OEM battery, Interstate, Wallmart, what have you. I got sick of the constant battery issues and sprang for the Optima. I've been happy so far. I am glad I got it before prices shot up (a few years after I bought it)

AGM's are more vibration and shock resistant to a point but a well built flooded cell jar made correctly is as well and a flooded cell 'maintenance free jar also catches the airborne (gassed off) electrolyte and returns it to the individual cells but some still escapes.

Far as Optima's are concerned the rate of idle discharge (no load, battery not in circuit is the same as a conventional flooded cell battery and that is negligible. I cannot justify the additional cost of them, especially when Johnson Controls move most of their production of them to Mexico from Waterville, Ohio to cut production costs but increased the retail cost.

Far as I'm concerned, Optima AGM's are over priced and I'll never own one. If I want an advanced design battery, I'll buy (and have bought) a Hawker Odyssey sealed battery instead. Your Optima is incapable of operating upside down, the Hawker can be mounted in any position and it's 100% sealed too.

 

[ultrarunner]

I never did understand the cheap battery theory. If the battery doesn't work, neither does anything else. Doesn't that mean that the battery needs to be the best rather than the cheapest?

My jobber kept a line of low end and sold a lot of them…

Some don’t have the money and many only need one to sell the car…

When I needed cheap and good I called my high school friend working at a auto salvage yard to let me know when a good one came in… sometimes a even exchange and other times $5… back in the day…