Best Home Defense Rifle?

[tony123]

Well, isn't this a fun conversation....

As Curley stated, there are many other considerations in an end of the world as we know it scenario. Your weapon of choice will not be one of the more important ones.

As for home defense....I haven't had much experience defending the home against 2 legged intruders, but I have taken care of the four legged variety a few times. Running out on the front porch and firing off the 12guage with buckshot gives me a pretty secure feeling.

 

[jsboening]

How about a German Shepard named "Rifle" for a first line of defense. Backed up by a Springfield .45 and then a Ruger mini-14. "I do believe I got you covered."

 

[DennisArrow]

Unless there is a complete breakdown of civil authority, the idea of having to defend my home against a mob or group of armed men attacking it from the outside at long range is very low probability. And, if there is a breakdown of civil authority, your home will rapidly become uninhabitable, since electricity, water, etc. will no longer be supplied. Spend your money and efforts defending against something that might happen instead of something that won't happen.

CurlyDave I appreciate the thoughts. There are LOTS of folks that live off the grid because of this exact reason. Personally, my solar power panels to keep up my Airstream batteries will keep me going a very long time. These same panels, my wood stove and surrounding forest keep the house itself habitable in the winter. The generator will pump water from the well when I need it or I can carry it from the spring if the gasoline becomes to expensive or not available. The garden gives us plenty of greens and canned goods. The goats provide the meat and milk. On and on. This is the reason WHY the predators from urban areas will be coming OUR way. We can survive with what we work for and have. Simply put, they can't.

I really thank you guys for the input..........Am glad you see my thoughts and concerns and don't treat my question as a crockpot. Yes, I see the scenario of a home invasion type situation as MOST probable. With your thoughts reinforcing my actions I feel that what I am currently doing is prudent. Yes, by the way we also, besides the pasture guard dogs, have a border collie and a golden retriever that hang out around the house. The BC is one fantastic dog for alerting to a situation.

Perhaps, my 9 years in the Army, before getting hurt and disabled gave me the worst case situational preparedness philosophy. For 3 of those years putting into action over and over again what to do and survive when the Warsaw Pact came through the Fulda Gap developed a certain mindset each time that alert siren went off. Or was it watching society going into bunker mode back in the 50's and 60's by digging reinforced supplied holes in the ground in order to survive. Maybe it is the fact that the US still keeps a force of nuclear weapons available for "retaliation". Developing a population of "It's my right to have all of my needs provided by the government" without giving concern that it is that same policy that will destroy that government and therefore that population brings the current situation into focus. Who knows the why that drives folks into being prepared.

Again, I thank you guys for your input. The assurance that I am currently doing the right thing to protect my close range home as I prepare for the long range future really makes me feel good. Thank YOU for that. Your input as to a type of rifle for that long range future is being evaluated and acted upon. I guess it is a matter of what is available in the marketplace vs my not so deep pockets.........Thanks again.........God Bless YOU all.....Dennis

 

[EddieWalker]

Sigarms,

Well said and thought out.

I find it interesting how some people can compare themselves to our military fighting a war on a daily basis, and think that they are capable of the same thing on their own that a team of experts trains daily to accomplish. Choice if weapon is best decided with what you are comfortable with and know how to use. Like Dave mentioned, having it available is all that really matters.

Eddie

 

[Dargo]

Not unless I want to be overpowered by an attacker! Guns only.. peper spray is for those that can't get a gun...

soundguy

Well, you know I'm afraid of guns...in the hands of Rambo wannabe people. Some of the wild ideas explained here right out of the movies are rather scary. Their unreasonable concerns of being attacked in their homes by a squad of enemy combatants would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that their advice is likely to get themselves or a loved one killed. Most of these people would honestly be far better served using a light like this The Torch Flashlight? The World's Brightest Flashlight from Wicked Lasers before ever considering the use of deadly force. At least that way there would be no doubt of who/what is in your home. Then, the idea of using a high powered rifle for home protection is absolutely insane. Some of the suggested firearms would not only kill someone in the next room, but several rooms away or even in the house next door.

If you pull the trigger at an intruder it is imperative that you consider what is behind the intruder. Again, most high powered rifles would pass right through the intruder, through the wall behind them, and be very capable of killing your wife, child, etc. in any room behind where the intruder is. Low power hollow point .45ACP cartridges are great for a pistol and and 12 gauge shot from #2 to #6 are better suited for home defense. A blast from a short, say 18 1/2", barrel shotgun spreads fast and would make a big hole in a gypsum board wall, but would be highly unlikely to seriously injure someone on the other side of that wall, thus greatly reducing the chance of killing or seriously injuring someone you did not intend to shoot.

I've been through several courses that train for the possibility of a home intruder. Not one single instructor advised using any high power rifle unless you just happen to live in a war zone where your intent is to kill everyone in the home. You don't even need a 12 gauge shotgun if you are not comfortable with one. A 16 or 20 gauge will work just fine. Heck, it was in one of those classes that I learned that the "gauge" of a shotgun is determined by how many lead spheres with a total weight of one pound would fit in the bore. In the example of a 12 gauge, 12 of these spheres would fit in the bore. A 410 shotgun would be an exception. It is measured by the size of the bore. Here, I found an online explanation here Shotgun shell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway, in the case of a home intruder your response should to be to eliminate the threat. In many cases the extremely bright flashlight I mentioned earlier would at the minimum blind the intruder and allow you to ascertain if the 'intruder' is indeed an intruder and a real threat. In most cases you also just bought yourself 15 seconds or more to decide your next move as your 'intruder' is blinded and disoriented. If you see it is an intruder with a firearm in your home, a blast at that close range with #2 shot will most certainly ruin his day. A slug or 000 buckshot would do the same but also possibly not stop at your intruder. A high power rifle would definitely have a real possibility of passing through the 'bad guy' and pass through walls to who knows where.

In the horrible event you are forced to use deadly force in your home, I don't believe anyone here can honestly say that they couldn't care less about their fire continuing on into other rooms and possibly pass on into a neighbor's home. There is no sense making a very bad situation into a complete tragedy. As I was told (several times), be safe, but be careful and be smart.

 

[AlanB]

I read all with interest on many levels, but I think most posters miss the basic point.

He is not asking what the best Home defense weapon is for in the house. Sounds to me like he has that covered.

He is asking what to use if things go really south. Laws, legal ramifications, moral consequences to the side, If I am sitting at my house, what rifle do I want to use to defend it.

While I am not going to sit and drink myself to death thinking about it like Pat Frank, I must admit it is something that has crossed my mind as well.

All that said, back to the original question, and it was also touched on here, I think by the original poster.

I would add a couple thoughts.

1. I think the most important thing in that scenario would be Ammo more then rifle. I want something I can sustain myself with ammo, if that was through reloading, buying bulk, getting military ammo etc. that would be my first thought, guns without Ammo are just kind of big sticks. My approach would probably be 30-06 and reloading capabilitites.
I believe (I do not have facts to back me up) but I believe that the 30-06 round is one of the most common out there.

2. I would not want a semi or a black gun or an AK etc. etc. except maybe as a last ditch. The reason really ties back to the answer above. When your adreneline is up and rushing, you will go through bullets at an incredible rate. Everyone want's to portray themselves as calm and cool when the crap is coming down, but the reality is that most folks, even the best in the world, tend to fire LOTS of ammo in a fire fight. I don't think many of us here on this board do the practice and training that many of the guys that we picture and think of in these scenarios do all the time. I think with a black gun you may find yourself with a stick in the first 3 minutes of a fight. Might be all you need, but it may go 4 minutes, and bringing a stick to a gunfight is no fun.

3. I would like to have a black gun too the side if the situation gets dire, but from the $ comments made etc. I doubt a black gun and the ammo to feed it and the ammo to practice with it are really in range. It is what I would grab second.

4.I have the cheery thought that fortunately for me, my next door neighbor, whom I do nothing with, but he is in the employ of someone that has sticks that reach WAY out there While we may not be aquaintances, we share a common interest in preservation and I think his stuff will reach a lot farther then mine will

Good luck with your decision. Let us all hope that none of these things ever come to pass.

Edit, while yes, he said "home defense" and most folks seem to take that in the context of being "in the home" I took it too be more of "homestead" or "property area" which is why he posted about the fields, animals etc. If I read incorrectly, my apologies. (and I am in the Shotgun/ pistol crowd)

Also, if you do not get the Pat Frank obtuse reference, look for the book Alas Babylon written where I grew up, still interesting reading today.

Got thinking about it a bit more, and wanted to add this thought as well on ammunition consumption.

Go play paint ball. Play serious, count how many balls you shoot. Limit yourself to X number. While it is not realistic in some ways, the ranges are a lot less and that would probably be where I would want a semi anyway, I think you will be amazed at how fast those balls disappear. I think my kid went through 1000 balls Sunday.

 

[CurlyDave]

There we disagree a little. An autoloader is usually big and can be heavy. Try aquiring your target and shoot multiple times with only one arm with a gun of that size, it can be very hard to do.

Bigger & heavier I can deal with. I can still put a short barrel on an autoloader. You aren't carrying it on a marathon, just a few feet around the house.

As far as acquiring the target goes, close is good enough, in fact just having something that goes bang is probably sufficient. Once any shot is fired at him, the intruder wants to leave.

The bigger question I have is where the heck the intruders are going to park (without me knowing it when I come up onto my house from being "out") and what they intend to take, and how far are they willing to hike with my possesions to leave the area?

They can park in your garage or barn. I don't usually park in my garage, especially in nicer weather. And, if the find a garage with enough mess so they know you won't use it, but little enough that they can clear a spot, this is the best of all. The spot clearing is fast, because they don't care about neatness, and they know you won't look there before coming in. They want their car out of sight so they won't be spotted by neighbors.

I usually take my dogs with me when I go out and entering the house is another area where they are very valuable. If someone is going to attack me, the dogs will get to him first, and I have more time while he deals with them. Catch one intruder and they will let me know if there is a second.

 

[cowboy357]

Just My Opinion But Common sense & a well thought out plan are the Best weapons of Choice . Plenty of Warning & No Trespassing signs Every so often around the Perimiter of the Property . A Gated Driveway . Security Cameras Aren,t a bad Idea & Reasonable these Days . Above That, I No Longer own or Want a rifle Because of the Distance factor . But Plenty of Handguns & shotguns & Plenty of Ammo . Not Because I,m Paranoid. We Just like to target Practice & We Both Love Guns .

I,m Not to Concerned as Our Property has a river Running through the back of the Property & Slews on both sides . Plus a Long Driveway . Plus We have a good line of site in all Directions. Not Much Chance of A Vehicle Getting Anywheres close without fair warning . Not That I,m Worried about an Attack like some . But We Have a Plan . Including an escape plan if Needed Depending on ANY situation.

I Guess If I was as Paranoid as Some People seem to be Getting & I,m not talking about here . But If I Were , I,d Probably dig a Moat with a draw bridge in Front of Our Property , & Trade My Tractors in on a good used Blackhawk Helicopter . But For Now We feel Pretty safe . A Very Interesting Thread though .

 

[Soundguy]

I have differing opinions on a few points. here are my reasons.

1, Re: the mob. Quite unlikely.. however.. if it ever comes to that.. the average 'hunting' rifle will more than suffice for long range takedown. If you already got a hunting rifle.. no need to go out and buy a 'special long range tactical home mob defense rifle'.. your deer gun should suffice.

2, Re: an autoloader vs a pump.. Yeah right! NOT. Autoloaders have a much greater tendency to jamb and have limited magazine capacity. A pump gun not plugged for hunting can hold what? 5-6 shots vs 3 on an autoloader? That's the same reason a double barrell is not onmy list of home defense guns. Though i do have a '2nd chance/last grab' single shot 12g right next to the 12g pump hanging over the bed. As for not being able to chamber a round in a pump with only one arm.. that's really not true unless your primary arm is also mostly disabled. 1, a shotgun.. pump or autoloader is a heavy gun.. while i wouldn't mind having a tactical length pump since they are cheap.. I'd hate to have a tactical length autoloader due tot he price.. and the fact it would be useless for hunting. I have a buddy with 1 arm.. he operates a pump gun just fine. Leans it agaist his no-arm shoulder muzzle up.. loads it.. grasps it by the slide and racks it kinda like the woman did inthat terminator 2 movie.. .. just a quick up and down motion.. let inertia do half the work for you.. then the but on his kne and he can slowly slide his hand down to the grip and fire it. Actually.. that's al the safe way.. usually he just throws it around a bit and has worked fine.

I'd like to see you clear a jamb in an autoloader with one hand. I've lost many a duck to a hung autoloader.. will NEVER own one.. will NEVER again hunt with one..


As for the guns in a safe... well.. at least the guns are safe.. but you aren't. let me clarify that. My regular guns are securely locked away.. my self defense guns are locked and loaded ..

I've got no kids.. the miss's and I have a total of 5 places where we can retrieve fire arm... and we have a plan in case of breakin.

2 of those guns are shotguns.. the rest are pistols.. one of them is a semi-auto.. the rest are revolvers. for the same reason that I don't like autoloader shotguns.... revolvers are just so good at not jambing. The only reason one of them is a semi-auto is it is my regular carry gun.. plus it's my only semi auto my wife has the hand strength to rack the slide... and it's a good gun.. a sig.. never had it jamb on me... so far..

As with most things.. bigger is better when it comes to safety and knockdown power.. Ilike my 38 revolvers with +P loads for self defense.. but.. a 12ga 00 buck round at the same distance will likely be much more devistating to the attacker. Besides.. i tend to think an attacker walking across your living room at night in order to kick in your bedroom door might flee when he hears a pump gun slide rack. Chances are he won't hear the small cocking piece of the auto laoder.. or the hammer on a pistol .. heck.. some revolvers dont even have the hammer spur.. so no 'warning' sound that could scare an attacker away.

Back to bigger.. when i go hog hunting... I usually have my 30-30 and I always carry a backup pistol for close encounters.. That is a 44 magnum.. not my smaller carry gun... why? Because i want to kill whatever is attacking me.. before it kills me. I'm sure a 22 pistol would do it if i could get an eye shot.. however with the 44.. I don't need an eye shot... Related to above... I'm quite sure my 38's will deliver a wound that is capable of eventually stopping or disabling/killing my attacker... but I'm not as sure it will do it immediatly.. or with a partial off shot.. IE.. depending on the distance I have while the attacker closes on me.. I may only have time for 1 maybee 2 shots... if one of them ain't a vital organ or head shot that drops him in his tracks.. he's likely to be able to engage me before he bleeds out from a wounding shot. I'm more certain that the 12g 00buck will provide a much larger margin of safety.. even if the pattern is only at a couple inches.. that's massive trauma.. anyone who's ever hunted or shot a shotgun knows exactly what 00 buck does to a target at short range... and that's what I'd prefer.. more margin of safety.

lastly.. the long body of even a tactical shotgun, can prove to be used as a defensive weapon.. even if out of ammo.. it's at least a metal club or pole.. depending on gun length.. agaist a crowbar or shovel handle it gives you a chance for protection.. vs an empty hand held pistol.

soundguy

After reading through the whole thread, let me explain some things.

Unless there is a complete breakdown of civil authority, the idea of having to defend my home against a mob or group of armed men attacking it from the outside at long range is very low probability. And, if there is a breakdown of civil authority, your home will rapidly become uninhabitable, since electricity, water, etc. will no longer be supplied. Spend your money and efforts defending against something that might happen instead of something that won't happen.

A much higher probability confrontation is defending yourself against a home invasion style attack, where someone is either inside your home or a few feet outside it. While many people recommend a pump shotgun for this scenario, I differ with them. If you really insist on a shotgun, an autoloader is far superior to a pump, for the simple reason that I can return fire with one arm disabled. Can't do that with a pump.

However, I am not a big fan of shotguns for home defense. Home invasions happen fast, and a shotgun has the disadvantage that I can not carry it on my person.

If someone breaks into my house, they are not going to stand in open-jawed amazement as I head off to the bedroom to get my shotgun. They are going to prevent me from doing this. And, they for sure aren't going to stand by and watch as I open the safe so I can get out a weapon and load it...

The best home-defense weapon is the pistol I carry. It is with me, so I don't have to go get it. It is kid-proof, because I have it and never put it down. In fact, the kids don't even have to know it is there.

Now, the highest probability threat of all is that of coming home to find an intruder in the house. Here again, I feel the pistol on my person as I walk in the door is better than the shotgun in another room. All the shotgun does is arm the intruder before I arrive home.

And, no one has brought up the most effective home defense tool of all -- a dog. Not an aggressive pit bull, ready to attack anyone who comes near, but a friendly dog that barks. Even the smallest pink-dyed poodle, with a ribbon in its hair, is going to let you know if someone is sneaking into your house.

Since my taste in dogs doesn't run toward pink poodles, I have two labs that let me know if anyone is near the house. These guys are a reliable, friendly breed that aren't going tear some little kid who wanders by into pieces, but they are going to let me know he is there.

If the threat is an animal, I dispatch it with my deer rifle, a .308 which has significantly less recoil that a .30-06, but still has plenty of power to put down a bear or a cougar. A .223 just isn't going to do that well on a black bear.

IMHO, someone might think he needs a rifle, and I am all in favor of responsible people owning firearms, but there is a lot more security in a concealed carry permit and a dog or two.

 

[Soundguy]

And really the first shot in my house would not be aimed straight at him anyway . You would ALLWAYS use the first shot as a warning . .

Not me buddy.. my warning shot goes right into the person attacking me... I may only get one shot depending on how close he is. If he wanted a warning.. he should have broken into my property to hurt me or my family.

If it was just a noise that woke you and the lighting was poor , you would not fire to kill as it could be a child comming in late or a boyfriend LEAVING late , or even if it was a kid with your DVD player under his arm , you would not kill him for that.......You only kill people that want to kill or assault you and your family , DVD players are 49 bucks .

Bad thinking here... When shooting you should always check you targets and know your backstop. If it's dark and i can't see the noise.. i DO NOT shoot. I only shoot at a percieved threat.. not a sound in the dark.

Soundguy