Best tractor list

[Dargo]

Oh, I never claimed to be the wise old sage here when it comes to tractors. I'm sure there are many guys here who had been working on tractors for decades before I was ever born. I have, however, turned enough wrenches on equipment to know what is quality and what is a turd painted to look pretty. I've actually, on several occasions, made positive comments about Mahindra, so relax. Mahindra is not a new company nor one new to manufacturing tractors. I would not at all be surprised to hear that someone was impressed with one of them.

I won't name any names, but even though I'm not a betting man, I'd still bet that many of the tractors you consider 'high quality' are nothing than extremely poor quality wannabe's with a shiny paint job and some jazzed up sheet metal. Underneath is 20 to 30 year old technology and likely 2nds at that. You want to compare Toyota and Kubota to some of the other off brands that are new here, but that comparison just doesn't stand up. Toyota and Kubota never granted franchises to roadside yard barns and allowed the dealer to carry zero parts, have zero training, and only stock one or two of their units. Basically, they didn't try to sneak in the back door. That is exactly what many of what you consider "quality" offerings is doing. You have simply fallen for their ruse.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

What amazes me is that rather than pointing out other bits of good design or bad design found on tractors so that a thread about BEST TRACTORS can stay on topic, it seems like there is a lot of arguement over a simple observation about the (opinion) of the poor placement of the 3pt lever.

Most of the time when I am using the 3 point control to hook up an implement, lower the brush hog into the grass, or lower any other implement I am turned around looking back at the implement. If the lever is along side the seat: good. If the lever were in front or down low: bad

While some may feel they are be able to operate it under all conditions, GeneD14 and Soundguy certainly understand the observation and GeneD14 obviously understands why it is a poor (opinion) placement.

So to get onto the topic of BEST, let's consider the placement of the "cruise control" on some of the newer John Deere tractors. It is on the right fender and can be actuated with your thumb while your hand is on the 3pt lever. You don't have to take you eyes off the path of travel to find it, you can feel it. I have a dash mounted cruise control on one tractor and it is behind the steering wheel requiring a reach around, its a traditional location and not a bad one, but not as nice as the JD location. On another I have a mechanical cruise control and it is the worst of all I have seen.

if that is the HD bucket.. I sure would hate to see the light duty one!!!.. Looks like those implements made for lawnmowers.. etc..

That is my point, when you see a bad feature or design it is pretty obvious. That bucket is on what is supposed to be on a H.D. tractor based on what the sales guy told me. The top lip is a simple fold. It is completely unreinforced along the top. Compare that to some of the other brands buckets that have heavy wall square or round tubes welded full length for top rigidity. The bottom edge (not shown in the photos) was a simple cutting edge, but there was very little on the bottom to prevent wear through, compare that to the buckets that have several full depth wear/skid strips welded from the cutting edge to the back of the bucket.

 

[Keith_B]

As the "AG tractor" evolved, the also-rans fell off the edge of the earth. I'd bet the ranch that'll happen with some of these 3rd world bargain brands in due time.

What tractors are made in the 3rd world countries? China, Korea, India and Japan are not third world countries, and that's where a lot of under 100 hp tractors are coming from today.

Many of the older companies were merged with other companies over the years, and names were changed, but the products were often times absorbed into the other company's line. It wasn't the product that doomed these companies as much as it was mismanagement and poor marketing.

The tractor market and the automarket are very similar. In the 70's Japan automakers like Honda and Toyota entered the U.S. market, as did Kubota. People didn't think they would last, but the not only lasted, they thrived.

It hasn't been that long since Hyundai, Kia and other companies entered the US automarket, following closely behind them we have seen companies with similar roots enter the tractor market.

In regards to Ag tractors, it is just another change in terminology. There haven't been just tractors for at least five decades, or more. It used to be that there were row crop tractors and utility tractors, with the row crop versions having a higher ground clearance for cultivation purposes, and the utility versions were lower to the ground for more stability.

The lines between the CUT and Utility (Ag tractors if you will) are beginning to blur more and more as the size of the CUTs increase. My 40 HP CUT is larger than a lot of the older used utilities I looked at, and with CUTs in the 50 HP range becoming commonplace I am seeing a lot of farmers trading in their 135 Masseys, 3000 Fords, etc., and going with these larger CUTs and loving them.

 

[KrumpsBrother]

KB, I tried out that model of tractor when I was shopping, and one does not have to bend over to reach the 3 pt valve, to raise and lower the 3PH. If you look at the pic it shows the 3PH valve lever is just below the edge of the seat when in the down position. The seat will lower as weight is put on it decreasing the distance. I've driven about every major brand of tractor there is and found it to be neither more nor less comfortable to operate the 3PH on this tractor than on all of the other brands.

Keith B, I totally agree with you, hence the "bend over-silly" in qoutes in my post. I owned a 4940 for about 6 months and found it to be a very comortable tractor, in my opinion. Maybe I have long arms? I also liked having the loader valve set back closer to the seat, even though it made exiting that side of the tractor more difficult.

KB

 

[Keith_B]

Oh, I never claimed to be the wise old sage here when it comes to tractors. I'm sure there are many guys here who had been working on tractors for decades before I was ever born. I have, however, turned enough wrenches on equipment to know what is quality and what is a turd painted to look pretty. I've actually, on several occasions, made positive comments about Mahindra, so relax. Mahindra is not a new company nor one new to manufacturing tractors. I would not at all be surprised to hear that someone was impressed with one of them.

I won't name any names, but even though I'm not a betting man, I'd still bet that many of the tractors you consider 'high quality' are nothing than extremely poor quality wannabe's with a shiny paint job and some jazzed up sheet metal. Underneath is 20 to 30 year old technology and likely 2nds at that. You want to compare Toyota and Kubota to some of the other off brands that are new here, but that comparison just doesn't stand up. Toyota and Kubota never granted franchises to roadside yard barns and allowed the dealer to carry zero parts, have zero training, and only stock one or two of their units. Basically, they didn't try to sneak in the back door. That is exactly what many of what you consider "quality" offerings is doing. You have simply fallen for their ruse.

Dargo, believe me I have used enough tractors to know what is a quality tractor and what isn't. I pretty well listed in a previous post the secondary companies (at least in the US market) that I consider putting out a quality product at the present. Which of these are you proclaiming isn't a good product at the present time?

I must point out that my not agreeing with Bob on his opinions not being facts does not mean that I do not share those opinions about the tractor in his photos. You will also note that I do not have it listed in my post above, I also do not think the company will have the longevity necessary to provide service in the future as they do not appear to be dedicated to success of that tractor line.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I'd still bet that many of the tractors you consider 'high quality' are nothing than extremely poor quality wannabe's with a shiny paint job and some jazzed up sheet metal. Underneath is 20 to 30 year old technology

Brent that is an excellent point. But let me expand a bit. Most of the tractors in the market today seem to have quality engines that are of modern design (but that may be due to EPA mandates). However,when other factors are taken into account, I think some tractors really stand above others for design and features. You really hit something when you said "underneath is 20 to 30 year old technology" because that is a very true statement. Take a look at the NH TC30, JD 790 or the Kubota L2800 gear machines. Those are great examples of 20 year old technology from "Big 3" manufacturers. But many of the newer brands also lack modern ergonomics. The photos I posted previously certainly show some problem points.

While this thread is about BEST TRACTORS and not about 'budget machines' it does make sense to look at the budget machines so we can see the shortcomings, because that helps illustrate why some other designs are better.

Take for example simple 4x4 shift and then compare it to the "sensi track" system that is on some of the New Holland machines. No way to compare them, and no legitimate way to claim that anything else is as good. Sensi Track simply sets the highest standard. Or look at JD's LoadMatch technology, again, it is the highest standard. The NH's rabbit/turtle switch is a great feature, not quite as good as LoadMatch, but still better than other offerings, which basically don't have a feature that is similar.

I owned a 4940 . . .

KB the tractor in those photos was not a 4940 or even remotely that large. And if you could get out the right side of the tractor in the photo then you are a real acrobat because the only way to do it would have been to go over the top of the loader valve/lever.

 

[Keith_B]

Keith B, I totally agree with you, hence the "bend over-silly" in qoutes in my post. I owned a 4940 for about 6 months and found it to be a very comortable tractor, in my opinion. Maybe I have long arms? I also liked having the loader valve set back closer to the seat, even though it made exiting that side of the tractor more difficult.

KB

I'm only 5-8 and have average arms for my height, so long arms isn't a reason for me being comfortable with the operation of the 3PH lever. I actually found it more comfortable than the tractors where you have to reach back in order to work the lift. Those work great when looking over your shoulder, but when working the lift while looking straight ahead are a bit uncomfortable.

I thought the loader valve being set back closer to the seat was a plus on the tractor, as one didn't have to extend their arm as far to work the joystick control. My biggest problem with the tractor, and it is one I had with a number of the CUTs I tried out, was it didn't have enough weight for the uses I need a tractor. I also didn't get a sense that the parent company was giving the dealer enough support to make them successful in the long term.

 

[Keith_B]

Brent that is an excellent point. But let me expand a bit. Most of the tractors in the market today seem to have quality engines that are of modern design (but that may be due to EPA mandates). However,when other factors are taken into account, I think some tractors really stand above others for design and features. You really hit something when you said "underneath is 20 to 30 year old technology" because that is a very true statement. Take a look at the NH TC30, JD 790 or the Kubota L2800 gear machines. Those are great examples of 20 year old technology from "Big 3" manufacturers. But many of the newer brands also lack modern ergonomics. The photos I posted previously certainly show some problem points.

While this thread is about BEST TRACTORS and not about 'budget machines' it does make sense to look at the budget machines so we can see the shortcomings, because that helps illustrate why some other designs are better.

Take for example simple 4x4 shift and then compare it to the "sensi track" system that is on some of the New Holland machines. No way to compare them, and no legitimate way to claim that anything else is as good. Sensi Track simply sets the highest standard. Or look at JD's LoadMatch technology, again, it is the highest standard. The NH's rabbit/turtle switch is a great feature, not quite as good as LoadMatch, but still better than other offerings, which basically don't have a feature that is similar.


KB the tractor in those photos was not a 4940 or even remotely that large. And if you could get out the right side of the tractor in the photo then you are a real acrobat because the only way to do it would have been to go over the top of the loader valve/lever.

It looked like the 3940 that I tried out to me.

IMO, a lot of the features being touted as setting the "highest standard" are more about making the tractors fit into a niche than anything else. The manufacturers are putting these features in for those who are entering the market and aren't experienced users. A lot of tractor owners, especially those that are long term users, do not need load match or a rabbit/turtle switch. Most guys I know don't even think about what gear they are using for a job, they'll put the tractor in the right gear from the beginning automatically without thinking, and without having to begin pulling then have a computer tell the tractor what it is supposed to be doing.

These conveniences, while nice for a lot of people, aren't must have items for everyone. Personally I enjoy having the 12X12 shuttle on my Mahindra just like I enjoyed using the old triple range Case 430 my late father-in-law owned, or the 8 speed Ford 4000 he owned. I derive an element of pleasure when I've got the plow running deep and the tractor purring just right as I break the ground and smell that fresh dirt.

 

[Dargo]

Pssst, Keith. Bob put you on his "ignore" list. He won't see a word you have written. Your above post will be for naught.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Pssst, Keith. Bob put you on his "ignore" list. He won't see a word you have written. Your above post will be for naught.

Pssst Dargo, thanks for the heads up. But I suspect that this post did not discusss the topic of BEST TRACTORS but instead probably just tried to pick my posts apart. I really don't understand why people get their undies in a bunch when attempting to discuss tractors in an objective manner.

But let me add a bit. There are dozens of innovations that people do without every day. Its been said before, but when electric windows were an option on cars (they called them electric windows back then, but now we call them power windows) people said they wouldn't buy them because they were "just another thing to break." I suspect that some folks look at the new digital displays on the Kubotas and Deeres are say the same thing. Heck they probably say "my Pappy didn't need that so I don't either" but then go look at the real farm tractors and you see GPS units and ground sensors, and all sorts of complex do-dads that people don't need...unless they want to remain in the modern age of agri-business.

Again, just staying on topic, this thread is about BEST TRACTORS not "just getting by with old technology and aging design."

Innovative designs that are easier & faster to use, like the curved arm loaders are another design feature that are not gimmicks. In fact a well designed and innovative feature makes the tractors more productive.

So next time someone says SensiTrack is just a gimick, take his tractor, shift it into 4wd and turn some circles on his nicely groomed lawn. Then do the same with a SensiTrac equipped NH. Or pick up a Bi-Speed front end equipped Kubota, its different than SensiTrac but the end result is similar. The turf remains in tact while the regular 4wd will tear the turf. And while not everyone mows their lawn with a tractor, it doesn't change the point. The tractor is just as good when used by a professional landscape contractor, or golf course or park.

Now one thing that Chris (Soundguy) pointed out earlier in the thread is that there are all sorts of different uses and Chris and I use our tractors differently and in different climates. But while Chris is a gear guy, and I'm sold on HST, we can both agree that some things are simply bad design and other things are simply good design, even if we don't use that tractor in that specific application.

Heck with the way some people toss around logic, I'm beginning to wonder if all cars are the same. A Yugo is just as good as a Chevy, after all they both have and engine, a steering wheel and headlamps . . .