Best tractor list

[Keith_B]

Bob S, I would consider some of the facts you stated are opinions, as they are highly debatable. One example is your statement that the bucket is "light". Light or heavy duty is basically an opinion expressed to represent an idea, whereas the fact would be in the gauge of the metal and other features of the bucket that are not open to being debatable.

Another example is in the photo where you said it would be impossible to exit and enter the operator's platform from the left side. That is opinion. A fact would be to say that there is 8 inches of space for entry/exit on the left side.

A non-tractor example would be something like tires. I've seen a lot of tires over the years advertised as heavy duty, but the ratings of those tires, which are the facts about the tire's duty characteristics are the true indication.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Bob S, I would consider some of the facts you stated are opinions, as they are highly debatable. One example is your statement that the bucket is "light". Light or heavy duty is basically an opinion

Keith, based on a past thread here, we had owners of virtually every brand of tractor come to a 'consensus' of how to define tractor buckets and this appears as a 'light duty' bucket by that previously agreed to definition. So within that context of what the majority of people agreed upon, this is, in "fact" not even remotely close to a H.D. bucket.

in the photo where you said it would be impossible to exit and enter the operator's platform from the left side. That is opinion. A fact would be to say that there is 8 inches of space for entry/exit on the left side.

Keith, feel free to go back and look at the photo again. It is my hand that is roughly 8" across, the opening between the fender and the loader is obviously far less than 8" and and the actual opening is probably much closer to 4" (look behind my hand and you will see the left size of the valve & hoses clearly are very close to the fender). If any adult human can squeeze through an opening of that size then I will gladly retract my statement of fact. Until then, I submit it is a prettly clearly established "fact" that this is a one-sided tractor.

 

[Keith_B]

Bob, it doesn't change the FACT that you were posting a lot of your opinions, even if those opinions are shared by many doesn't make them fact.

The reality is the concensus of what everyone posts as a being heavy duty, even with 100% agreement by TBNers, was still your translation of that concensus. I'm not saying the bucket was heavy duty, light duty, etc. What I'm saying is that facts and opinions are clearly different. Even if opinions are 100% accurate they remain opinions. A gauge of steel is fact, it is measurable and clearly defined, the terms light and heavy are opinions, as each individual has a different idea of what the terms equate to when looking at an item.

Your own words indicate that it was light duty based upon your opinion, as you said "this appears as a 'light duty' bucket by that previously agreed to definition."

The 8" measurement, 4" measurement, etc., would be a factual measurement, the opinion that one cannot access from the right side is an opinion based upon your estimated measurements. Since you have not lined up adults of enough sizes, shapes and dexterities to test the ability to enter that side of the tractor it is not correct to call it a fact, as it remains an opinion.

I tried out that make and model of tractor myself, and quickly eliminated it from consideration for a variety of reasons, and I am not in anyway arguing the merits of that machine. I am simply saying that many of the observations you made are subjective, and can vary by observer, making them clearly opinions, and not cold hard facts.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Keith, I respectfully submit that you are just being silly. I have now added you to my ignore list.

 

[dknarnd]

What I would find to be interesting would be a poll of TBN members indicating which make and model tractor they own. Potentially also a poll of implements.

This would have to be done as an actual poll so that only one vote per registered member (multiple tractors OK) can be placed. Instead of specific models maybe just manufacture and HP plus transmission. This would take some thought. Then with the results one could extrapolate all kinds of data from such a database. You may see different brands in different regions, 2WD or 4WD by region who knows!!!!

I for one would like to see such a poll.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

What I would find to be interesting would be a poll of TBN members indicating which make and model tractor they own. Potentially also a poll of implements. . .
I for one would like to see such a poll.

The software used by TBN (vBulletin) has the ability to post polls that allow for exactly what you wish. However, it appears that TBN has turned this feature off.

 

[weesa20]

what dknarnd stated above about the poll is essentially what I had planned...I was thinking, for one example, of a table of 20 HP SubCUTS and then everyone (who had any experience with a tractor or tractors in the table) would indicate what they thought the tractor's best task and/or attributes would be. It essentially would be a poll on every tractor that anyone cares about. That way, once I have defined my task list, I could start shopping by reviewing what someone else thought each tractor was good at and then narrow it down by other factors (of my choosing)

Instead of getting a hundred posts about "what tractor should I get" we could refer the member to the table as a place to start...

W

 

[KrumpsBrother]

Keith, I respectfully submit that you are just being silly. I have now added you to my ignore list.

It's silly to think that one would have to "bend over" to reach the 3 pt valve.

KB

 

[MossRoad]

Let's face it... there is no do-all be-all machine for all tasks. You have to research the tasks you need to do today, next year and in five years and see if you can come up with a machine that will do them within your time and money budgets. For us, it was a very large old, used tractor/loader to get the big jobs done fast in the first five years. Then we downsized to a smaller unit to do the mantenance tasks that we forsee in the next decade or two. While everyone's chores sound the same, in reality, everyone's chores are different, just as we are all different. So let's stop arguing about facts and opinions and just discuss the task at hand... how to choose a tractor that best fits your needs, not mine. I already got mine.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

It's silly to think that one would have to "bend over" to reach the 3 pt valve.

KB

That is exactly the point I was trying to make. Thank you!

That is why it is possible to identify "good" and "bad" design. But the fact is that to fully lower the 3pt on the 39hp tractor, the lever had such a long throw that when I had the seat pushed back (I have long legs) I had to lean forward in the seat to get it to the fully down position (I have average length arms). Compare that to a lever on another brand that has roughly 8" of travel and it located where it does not require you to shift your seating position to adjust the 3pt.

Or perhaps if we compare it to a car's ergonomics, why did manual transmissions move from "3 on the tree" to "4 on the floor" to the point where now the new state of the art is to have a clutchless "fingertip paddle" to change gears? Simple answer is that it is faster and more responsive.

One thing I have come to appreciate on my tractors is that one of them has levers with different shaped handles on the levers. So while my rear remote lever is next to my 4wd lever, the handle shape is different so if I am not looking at the lever because I'm looking backward at the hydraulic toplink to make sure it is set properly, I know by the feel/shape of the lever that I have the correct lever in my hand. It is "fact" that the levers are a different shape. It is my "opinion" that this is a good design. On another of my tractors the levers are the same shape but different colors. This is a nice looking feature, but I find that I often engage the levers by feel because I am watching the implement. It is "fact" that the levers on that tractor are of different colors. It is "opinion" that this design is not as good as different shaped levers. On another of my tractors the levers are the same shape, and same color. That is "fact." My "opinion" is that this is a poor design because is almost forces me to look at the levers to make sure I effect the correct one.

As "Iowachild" pointed out in an early post . . . the devil is in the details, but these little details can make a design "better" or "worse."

what dknarnd stated above about the poll is essentially what I had planned

The opinion poll feature that is in the vBulletin software package used here on TBN is not sophisticated enough to allow for a poll as complex as you are looking for. I suppose you could run serveral polls and tally the results? The poll featue allows for at least 10 choice, allows multiple answers, but will also block you from voting twice, so it is pretty powerful, but it does not allow for a complex matrix type poll like you would need.

there is no do-all be-all machine for all tasks. You have to research the tasks you need to do today, next year and in five years and see if you can come up with a machine

David that was my point of my first post in this thread. Tasks & Conditions dictate things. However, it is possible to objectively discuss "good or better" versus "bad or worse" design. I'm sure you recall the discussion we had on loader design. That thread was a very popular thread, it was contributed (with photos) by maybe a couple dozen people and the reality was that 98% of the people were very civil and objective. We agreed on definitions and then went forward from that point in a very constructive way. . . as this thread is titled the BEST TRACTOR LIST it would be hard to have a 'best' tractor if we could not discuss their features objectively.