Beware: kioti backhoe HORRIBLE departure angle ck2610 kb2475l

[deezler]

The better designed one is called a mini-excavator.

The BH's sold for SCUTS are designed to fill a niche market for people demanding
View attachment 742663

Correct! My tractor is a swiss army knife for sure. Big wheelbarrow, homestead forklift, materials mover, front loader, grapples logs and brush, joy rides, pulls trailers, digs post holes, grades the driveway, brush-hog mows the rough stuff, and of course has a backhoe for digging. Pretty dang versatile!

expecting one of these
View attachment 742664

Nah, I know my backhoe isn't industrial grade, I use it gently (but am lucky to have nice loose sandy soil). I rent a proper mini-ex when I need to dig big, fast and rough.

so it will fit in the corner of their garage. What they really want is this
View attachment 742665

Heck yeah! My TLB fits neatly inside my garage for sure. But what I want is... a small sapling? You lost me there.

 

[deezler]

I took some measurements for ya last night, orange.

As i found it (nothing on ssqa, front loader on floor) parked in my garage that has a pretty decently flat concrete floor - 11.25" under the backhoe kingpin. It looked like my rear tires were well on the concrete about 52" forward of there. = ~12 degrees departure angle.

I grabbed a nearly full bucket of moist dirt and measured again, had about 12" under the kingpin now. = 13 degrees.

I measured about 4 to 4.5" clearance between my backhoe seat and the fuel tank cap. Could definitely fix that and have the whole backhoe be about 6-8" closer to the machine. But you know what? That would only improve your departure angle to about 14 degrees. Is it worth it? Probably not.

I forgot to check my rear tire pressure but I think they are at around 25 psi. What are yours at, by the way?

But then I went out and dug some small tree root balls that are in the way of a new project. In practice on my land, I've never gotten stuck from the rear angle. Maybe it drags the dirt here and there, no big deal. Only matters when loading a steep trailer on pavement, I suppose.

 

[Amvcane]

another one.

 

[tradosaurus]

Orange tree,
could you please edit your posts and remove the @ symbol from before my screen name.
Its a very simple request. I am very insulted by it and that’s all you need to know.

How does the @ symbol insult you?

 

[Bobcat Tractor Mac]

Bobcat does not use the Kioti backhoe or loader.

 

[orangetree]

Amvcane (sans the @mention...) confirmed (before deleting his post & pic above) that his 2012 CK3510se-hst, with kb2475 (no 'L') also has ~10" ground clearance to the kingpin, and that his kingpin is ~46" aft of the rear axles.

it is interesting that both deezler and amvcane have a ck3510, but while the pics are from different angles, amvcane's subframe SURE looks further forward in the pics: (below is amvcane's)

but this DOES match with the numbers you both reported:

• amvcane kb2475 (no L) is 46 inches axle->kingpin
• deezler's kb2475L is 52 inches
• my kb2475L from a few years later is 54 inches

Next year, it will be 6 feet!

(Obviously I have a completely different SUBframe part - but the specs on the ck2610 and ck3510se (at least per Kioti.com April 2022) are identical in the relevant matters: same wheelbase (should be identical frame), both use 15-19.5 rear industrial tires.)

 

[orangetree]

I took some measurements for ya last night, orange.

As i found it (nothing on ssqa, front loader on floor) parked in my garage that has a pretty decently flat concrete floor - 11.25" under the backhoe kingpin. It looked like my rear tires were well on the concrete about 52" forward of there. = ~12 degrees departure angle.

I grabbed a nearly full bucket of moist dirt and measured again, had about 12" under the kingpin now. = 13 degrees.

I measured about 4 to 4.5" clearance between my backhoe seat and the fuel tank cap. Could definitely fix that and have the whole backhoe be about 6-8" closer to the machine. But you know what? That would only improve your departure angle to about 14 degrees. Is it worth it? Probably not.

I forgot to check my rear tire pressure but I think they are at around 25 psi. What are yours at, by the way?

But then I went out and dug some small tree root balls that are in the way of a new project. In practice on my land, I've never gotten stuck from the rear angle. Maybe it drags the dirt here and there, no big deal. Only matters when loading a steep trailer on pavement, I suppose.

Thanks, and greatly appreciate the measurements.

It's odd that you and avmcane have different distances axle->kingpin. Kioti keeps making it longer.

BTW, I read ~100psi on my rears (might be a tad high; i was trying to prevent beet juice from running into my gauge).

I've emailed the dealer, will post what they say.

 

[orangetree]

Bobcat does not use the Kioti backhoe or loader.

View attachment 742700

That's interesting - I know that kioti makes some bobcat; not sure if that is "all" of the CK's (yes?), and if they are 1-to-1's (eg, is the bobcat you show exactly a ck2610, ck3510, etc).

do you have a model for the hoe shown? Would be curious to see how it mounts / specs / cost. Perhaps if the dealer can't get me something remotely close the advertised specs, I'll return or sell it and look at the bobcat branded hoe?

 

[deezler]

I dont think amvcane has a ck3510. His profile shows a 2012 ck35. The ck3510 didnt debut until like 2015 or 2016, I believe.

TractorData.com Kioti CK35 tractor information

www.tractordata.com

My "52 inches" wasn't to the axle centerline, more like to the back of the tire patch on the ground. But it was a quick sloppy measure.

100 psi in your rears? Ouch. Well if you drop your front tires to 10 psi, it might get you an extra inch of clearance under the kingpin! (j/k, do not do this lol)

 

[Midniteoyl]

BTW, I read ~100psi on my rears (might be a tad high; i was trying to prevent beet juice from running into my gauge).

Thats too high. My OM shows 41psi max for the 35 and 40. Can't imagine it being any different for the 26. Mine are loaded and set to 35psi (maybe 30, forget). Not as low as deezler's, but I'm running R14's which require a few more pounds.

 

[DK35vince]

My DK 35, I run 40 PSI in the front tires and 15 psi in the loaded rears

 

[orangetree]

Thats too high. My OM shows 41psi max for the 35 and 40. Can't imagine it being any different for the 26. Mine are loaded and set to 35psi (maybe 30, forget). Not as low as deezler's, but I'm running R14's which require a few more pounds.

Thanks. Yeah, it sounds quite high. With all going on, i forgot to check it since I had CommercialTire fill all four tires with beet juice. Guess they juiced the pressure up to tractor-trailer levels ...

Thankfully it hasn't got hot yet, I'll get it lowered to 40.

 

[orangetree]

dealer says they've contacted Kioti, but the frame i have looks like the others they've installed.

Assuming Kioti comes back as expected and says "good to go!" ... not sure what my options are, even though kioti advertises 21 degrees.

I don't mind giving up 4 inches of dig depth (cutting off the end of the subframe, and bracing / re-welding it up _and_ forward 4 inches each direction) - but besides the fact this will be a PITA, I clearly can't modify the unit and keep it's warranty (so that hack is 5 years out). I suppose I could sell it private party for what i paid (they are backordered, and have increased in price) - but that would leave me with no hoe, and having to find an aftermarket one.

 

[joe48]

had my kb2475l installed recently for the ck2610 i bought last year (backhoe took for ever to ship). I didn't make much of an issue with the geometry of the hoe as it's mounted on the tractor; driving my dad's small kubota CUT as a kid, he never took the backhoe off, and had no problem using the tractor to plat several hilly lots and general ~hobby farm stuff. That kubota also had two seats (front seat doesn't swivel; backhoe has it's own seat). the ck2610 manual states departure angle is 21degrees.

However, the kioti has an "exit angle" MUCH worse than i could possibly imagine it's not usable day-to-day with it. I suppose it's not _that_ hard to install/remove; but I certainly hadn't planned on needing to do this every time. The kingpin of the backhoe is 4.5 FEET aft of the axle, and has slightly under 10" ground clearance. That's [pulls out calc] a TEN DEGREE exit angle. Worse than a sports car.

I own[ed] and 18' C&B flatbed with 5' ramps. even with SIX inches of blocks, I still scrape pavement with the kingpin; in dirt i have to did a food deep trench to load. I am trading that in for a 20', with custom 7 foot ramps, I hope to _barely_ be able to load/unload on pavement without jumping through hoops. How they designed it like this absolutely escapes me Just be forewarned you will be removing it a lot if you do general work with the loader.View attachment 742431

Ok stop looking for negatives. Yes it does overhang a lot but you will quickly learn to work with what you have.
Yes you have to put blocks under your ramps.
I have to do all that stuff with my kioti 6.5' hoe, I been using mine hard for 18 years now. I made ramp extentions with 3x12x4' oak planks. nowdays there are a number of places that make very nice steel or aluminum ramps that you can use.
If you browse other makes backhoe isssues on TBN you will probably find the Kioti Backhoes (which I think are still made by Rhino) are very well built and trouble free. I can mount mine in ten minutes or less and dismount in 5min. You need to connect your hydralics first and use the out riggers and boom to level and align while mounting.

 

[joe48]

Ok stop looking for negatives. Yes it does overhang a lot but you will quickly learn to work with what you have.
Yes you have to put blocks under your ramps.
I have to do all that stuff with my kioti 6.5' hoe, I been using mine hard for 18 years now. I made ramp extentions with 3x12x4' oak planks. nowdays there are a number of places that make very nice steel or aluminum ramps that you can use.
If you browse other makes backhoe isssues on TBN you will probably find the Kioti Backhoes (which I think are still made by Rhino) are very well built and trouble free. I can mount mine in ten minutes or less and dismount in 5min. You need to connect your hydralics first and use the out riggers and boom to level and align while mounting.

I should mention i have a CK20HST with the 6.5 hoe. from looking at your photos there is virtually no difference between yours and mine except in the length of frame, I believe that they stretched the frame for a couple reasons, to give more room on operators platform and 2 to be able to mount hoe without haveing to remove 3pt arms and top link. I'm 6'1' and my knees are onthe sides of the console and the seat is rubbing the plate on back of fuel tank with no adjustment. I cannot mount hoe without removing 3pt arms etc. which is a pain, easy off but pain to put on. Nothing is perfect when you make compromises to be a jack of all trades which is what our tractors are. So realize what the limitations are and make adjustments in your operation or attitude which ever.
Just appreciate how rugged and reliable your machine is, I have 400+ hours on my hoe and the only repairs are a hydraulic fitting I managed to break off and just tighten all the bolts at about 20hrs and again at 100hr and liberally grease all fittings.

 

[witenight]

That mounting of a backhoe indeed looks cumbersome. All TLBs are NOT created equal, however, as stated by someone earlier... I did have some trouble getting my TLB up on a trailer for transport, but I was loading onto a dump trailer w/a 30" high deck and 7' ramps... could not drive forward w/o scraping my backhoe frame SOME, but BACKED up w/o any trouble. This pic demonstrates an OEM design which intended to include a backhoe in the design from the beginning...

 

[Zmann.]

Excuse any duplicate opinions I jumped to the end ;')

Agreed the departure angle is poor
I back my Kioti on the trailer when I have the hoe on and even have to put the trailer bed up a little
I think a little longer ramp would work, .. at home I built a dirt birm so no ramps needed until i get to where I am going

also I did see the mention of the third link
I did some research on mine and came to the conclusion that you are not supposed to use that link ( that seat tube is not going to support the hoe anyway IMO)
so unless someone has it in a manual ( I looked at all of them ) I am sticking to my method

 

[Trippy1313]

For reference...

I have the Bobcat Ct2025 with the backhoe.

On my bobcat the Kingpin measures about 48" from the center of the rear axle, and the pin is 13.5" from the ground. So based on you guys, 3.5" higher but about the same distance back.

I have not hit anything on the kingpin yet, but depending on the angle I have drug the bucket. So I learned that if I'm loading into the dump trailer or a steep angle, all I have to do is shift the backhoe arm to the side or lift the bucket to clear. But getting into the dump trailer is pretty steep, it'll drag the brush mower too if I don't park the trailer in a good spot.

 

[hornett22]

I really liked the ck2610 until it came to the backhoe. Not sure what they were thinking other than they designed it on a Friday afternoon before a three day weekend. That's the main reason I went with the Mahindra 1626.