Big AGs or smaller AGS R1 on a TC40DA

Doc_Bob · Apr 14, 2006

( Bob looks like we're both learning something here about AG tire selection. This knowledge base at TBN is exactly the reason that I suggested this question be asked. )

Yes, TBN is a treasure of information. Lot's of smart folk here will to share information. I LOVE TBN!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob

Doc_Bob · Apr 14, 2006

( Bob, I see the consensus seems to be suggesting the larger tires. I'm not sure I'd agree, as I think "floatation" in general, when there is not enough weight behind it, is a bad thing. With a loader out front, if you go with the bigger tires, you probably won't have much trouble with applying adequate weight, and thus traction, to the front tires, but I'd give serious consideration to loading the rears with RimGuard. The Class III (TC35-TC45) tractors are just not all that heavy for such wide tires. )

Tractor will never see turf, will have lot's of FEL work with dirt and chips in 72 inch bucket. What is RimGuard??
Bob

LRH · Apr 15, 2006

( ( I would go for the larger R1's, but either would work OK. Easier and much cheaper to spend $300-350.00 dollars now than doing it later. )

Can you elaborate why you would go with the big R1s?
Bob )

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I would go with the larger rims/tires for a few reasons, the wider, usually heavier rims, higher load capacity tires. Something important for me is the slightly higher highway speed as I have several 2-4 mile runs from property to property several times a year, with very little loss in the lowest range gears. Even if you never went over 10 MPH ic could be done at a lower RPM. As far as flotation goes, remember these are still R1's and if the 2 sizes were vastly different in width you would still have much better traction than the industrials as far as digging down to the bottom versus floating across the top. The taller tire will also do better crossing small gullies and potholes by not dropping into the hole (as far). Draw backs are more expense at purchase time, higher step up height, most likely less rear wheel width settings (narrow setting only), higher COG if used in a narrow width setting, and as mentioned before a slightly higher lowest gear speed. But remember the speed loss or gain is a percentage; I have no tire specs or tractor specs in front of me now but if the tires are 7% taller and the max RPM lowest gear is 0.5 MPH and the max RPM highest gear is 15 MPH the lowest gear will now be 0.535 MPH ( for most users not much of a loss ) and the highest will be 16.05 ( may not help or hurt most users ). Just the fact you are getting so much more tire for so little makes it a bargain compared to tring to aquire later. Just my opinion and remember the MPH and tire % difference were just estimated on my part, get the specs from the Titan site and the tractor speed range from NH. I think "most" folks would go for the large size and this might make resale easier if you decide to sell/upgrade to a different tractor years from now. Good luck.

Doc_Bob · Apr 15, 2006

( ( ( I would go for the larger R1's, but either would work OK. Easier and much cheaper to spend $300-350.00 dollars now than doing it later. )

Can you elaborate why you would go with the big R1s?
Bob )

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I would go with the larger rims/tires for a few reasons, the wider, usually heavier rims, higher load capacity tires. Something important for me is the slightly higher highway speed as I have several 2-4 mile runs from property to property several times a year, with very little loss in the lowest range gears. Even if you never went over 10 MPH ic could be done at a lower RPM. As far as flotation goes, remember these are still R1's and if the 2 sizes were vastly different in width you would still have much better traction than the industrials as far as digging down to the bottom versus floating across the top. The taller tire will also do better crossing small gullies and potholes by not dropping into the hole (as far). Draw backs are more expense at purchase time, higher step up height, most likely less rear wheel width settings (narrow setting only), higher COG if used in a narrow width setting, and as mentioned before a slightly higher lowest gear speed. But remember the speed loss or gain is a percentage; I have no tire specs or tractor specs in front of me now but if the tires are 7% taller and the max RPM lowest gear is 0.5 MPH and the max RPM highest gear is 15 MPH the lowest gear will now be 0.535 MPH ( for most users not much of a loss ) and the highest will be 16.05 ( may not help or hurt most users ). Just the fact you are getting so much more tire for so little makes it a bargain compared to tring to aquire later. Just my opinion and remember the MPH and tire % difference were just estimated on my part, get the specs from the Titan site and the tractor speed range from NH. I think "most" folks would go for the large size and this might make resale easier if you decide to sell/upgrade to a different tractor years from now. Good luck. )

 Thanks for the explanation, very clear and concise, very helpful. Now, what width would you suggest for the rear tires? Looks like a TC40DA has six different settings. I work in wide open spaces, so width is not a factor. By width, I mean the disatnce from side to side between the two rear tires. I assume wider is better for reducing the chance of rollover. I work in a lot of soft, uneven wood chips and soil. Bob

djradz · Apr 17, 2006

RimGaurd is made from beat juice. It is now the preferred fluid for loading tires, although more expensive than other alternatives, it has none of the drawbacks, such as corrosion from chloride or toxicity from auto-coolant.

I'm going to keep tempering the consensus by noting that bigger tires may not buy YOU anything useful. Larger tires will limit your space between the tires (unless you somehow change the tire spacing) and may make hooking up some implements more difficult if not impossible due to not enough width to move the lower lift arms out enough to get over the lift pins on an implement. I have a rear scoop that fortuneately I could turn the pins around on, so they faced in rather than out, as it this was the only way I could hook it up. The industrial on my 40D, as spaced from the factor, are so wide they don't leave much room to move between. Also, look at some of the old farm tractors, large diameter, very thin tires, putting a lot of weight per square inch. Larger tires will cost you more to replace someday, although hopefully that will be so far in the future it's not worth worrying about. They also will limit your ability to get quit as close to an object, if you are moming etc. Have you checked the FEL capacity, versus what each tire will carry, in each of the sizes. I'd doubt you'll have to worry in either case. Best of luck no matter what you choose. I'm sure you'll be tickled regardless. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Doc_Bob · Apr 17, 2006

AG tires (big) fronts 8x16, rears 14.9 x 24, r1
Versus AG (small) front 7 x 16, rears 13.6 x 24

Duane given your excellent points about increased width with the larger tires (1.3 inches each for a total of 2.6 inches adding both, assuming I did the math correctly) then if I spread the tire spacing out an extra 3 inches by changing the configuration, then would your concern (well noted) "implements more difficult if not impossible due to not enough width to move the lower lift arms out enough to get over the lift pins on an implement" be resolved?????

Bob

daTeacha · Apr 17, 2006

The bigger tire will spread the weight over a larger area, reducing the amount the lugs will imprint the soil. In general, you will get slightly less traction but be a lot easier on the ground. On the flip side, the shallower imprints will be larger, giving a little more traction.

I don't think any factory tire option will interfere with the lift arms unless you have some very unusual implements. Your dealer can tell you for sure. When talking 13.6 vs 14.9, that 1.3 inches is divided between the two sides of the wheel center, making each tire less than 3/4 inch closer to the centerline of the tractor for a given wheel setting.

Ag tires are tough on woods ground where there is usually minimal compaction naturally and lots of opportunity for the rain etc. to percolate into the ground. You will very soon make a path or trail if you drive over the same area a lot.
The compaction goes surprizingly deep, and inhibits not only water penetration but also root growth since the soil particles are harder for the root hairs to push apart. A path forms because plants can't grow well in the compacted soil.

Get the bigger tires, keep pressures on the low side -- read your manual. If you decide to mix types with R4 on the front and R1 on the rear, pay very close attention to the loaded circumference ratio front to rear. Specifically ask the dealer about the tire sizes when mixing. They might not let you mix them on a new order, and for a specific reason -- you will get the wrong amount of "lead", maybe even some "lag" and stress your front axle components enough to cause premature failure. They probably won't let you put the big tires on the back and the small ones on the front for the same reason.

I'd suggest that you find the Firestone and/or Goodyear websites (Google, maybe unless someone posts a link) and either download or read from the screen their farm tire material. There is a LOT of information to be had there.

djradz · Apr 17, 2006

Bob, I'm sorry I won't be much help in resolving the issue on spacing. I've got industrial tires, which as everyone knows, are pretty wide. How the larger ags compare I don't know. What I've found is that if any implement is not aligned pretty much exactly behind and centered on the tractor, then the one arm will hit the tractor, but only on the one side that the implement is off-center toward. However, with my rear scoop, it is wide enough, as I think most of them are, that the pins where so far out that both arms hit the tires when I tried to spread the arms to get them over the pins, so I had to turn them around. Fortuneately, they don't interfere with tipping/dumping the scoop in this flipped around position. I'd suggest you just look at a tractor equipped with the tires and judge or measure for yourself. For me, I really don't want to move my tires any wider, even if I could, but this way be something you have no problem in doing.

daTeacha · Apr 18, 2006

I had to reverse the pins on my carry-all to fit my Kubota. It's no big thing as long as they don't interfere with the operation of the implement. I'm surprized they made anything so wide the 3 pt. on "real" tractor interfered.

BruceNorthEast · Apr 18, 2006

Hi Bob,

I own a TC35, and motor aside, has the same dimensions as your machine.

It's got R4s on the front and wide R1s (I think they're called wide-bar) Ags on the back (see attachment on this and next post).

The R4 industrials are 10.00-16.5, the Ags are 17.5-24 Titans.

I purchased the machine used this way and was told that the original owner wanted the traction of the R1s on the rear but the flotation of the R4s on the front...

So far I've used them in snow, mud, grass and gravel. I've been real happy with them.

I haven't done any scientific tests yet, measuring the rotation ratios of the front & rears, but I can tell you that it doesn't seem to bind up any worse than most others report, or what you'd expect. At times I can drive several hundred feet on gravel and grass with the MFWD engaged and switch over to 2WD by just letting up on the throttle and pushing the 4WD lever down. Other times I need drop it into reverse and roll a few inches (haven't cataloged this, but it seems to happen more when I'm doing lots of turning and maneuvering with FEL loads on mixed surface conditions).

I have gotten it momentarily stuck a few times, and needed to use the FEL to push myself out; one time I had opposite corner wheels barely touching (on very uneven ground), another the rears were coming up due to an excessive load in the bucket while at the bottom of a slope, one time I was trying to dig a bolder out of the mud and just couldn't get decent footing - realizing afterwards that I was still in 2WD... Cant really fault the tires for most of the 'em. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bruce.