Biofuels

Schultz · Apr 18, 2006

I was talking to the oil company that delivers my fuel oil and found out the federal subsidy for bio-diesel has been extended to 2008. Which is nice because it makes b99 cheaper than #2 diesel by about $.30/gal. I just ordered a fill up of b99 for my home heating fuel oil tank, which I also use for my Kubota.

Now that I've run b20 for a season in my furnace I'm sold. I opened the clean outs which would be full of sulfur fallout after a winter of heating and there was nothing to clean. I was worried about clogging/gelling an old system, but that didn't happen. However we did notice the furnace was a little louder once we got into the cold months. I attribute this to the lower viscosity of b20 with an outside tank. Delavan oil nozzles have a manual talking about lower viscosity makes for larger atomization droplets and a louder rumbling furnace. I was able to fix the rumbling furnace and make it quieter than before. I added 6' of copper tubing that I wound in in 4" x 6" coil to warm the oil before the nozzle, reduced the nozzle from .85 to .65 g/hr and upped the pump pressure from 110psi to 125psi. Now I'm thinking of moving the tank inside to the fruit cellar so I can run b50 or higher.
If you want to tune your furnace the nozzle the information at Delavan's site was indispensable. They have a manual on nozzle selection and tuning. http://www.delavaninc.com/doc_and_lit.htm

While running the bx on b20 this winter I never had an gelling or start up problems. I've been running it on B20-b99 in the summer.

Go biodiesel!

mattn · Apr 20, 2006

Yessir!

Running B80 in a Duramax, two TDI's and the Kubota.

Once you use it, you wont want to go back to that nasty imported stuff.

NIXON · Apr 20, 2006

As I understand it, Biodiesel tends to act as a solvent cleaning the fuel system. Would going to say B2,or B5 cause the filters on my vehicles to be clogged with the junk that the Bio diesel breaks free in the fuel system ? Thanks, John

hudr · Apr 20, 2006

There are so many variables in that question. How old is the vehicle(this also pertains to type of rubber used in fuel lines)? Do you use any fuel supplements regularly? IF so, what type?
If I were to swap to Biodiesel today, I would buy a couple of filters and keep them behind the seat of the truck just in case. Also, at that low a "dosage" of biofuel I don't THINK you would have a problem, but that is my OPINION. And you know what kind of trouble those two words can cause.

NIXON · Apr 20, 2006

( There are so many variables in that question. How old is the vehicle(this also pertains to type of rubber used in fuel lines)? Do you use any fuel supplements regularly? IF so, what type?
)
Hudr, thanks !
Sorry for the vague question. The vehicles are an 03 f250 with around 40k miles , an 05 CRD with around 18k miles , and a Kub. l3130 with 150 ,or so hrs .
Yes, I do use a fuel supplement . Stanadyne performance formula .

michigandon · Apr 20, 2006

Hiya Schultz!

I'm going to assume that "the oil company that delivers your fuel oil" is none other than good ol' G.E. Wacker in Manchester. I know they sell nothing but the finest quality product no matter what it is. They also have a lot of experience in the handling and distribution of bio. I have ran their B20 in my Jetta TDI since I got it a few months ago, and also used it in my Mercedes 240D before I parted it out, and also used their B20 and B99 in my motorhome last year. All have yielded good results as well as nice smelling exhaust. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I've been anxiously waiting for them to re-open their retail B99 pump for the summer. Want to get some for my recently acquired YM1510. It was delivered with about 1/4 tank of red high-sulfur off road D2 in it, and it's gotta be the nastiest, smelliest fuel and exhaust I've been around in over ten years. YECCH!!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Finally, an alternative fuel that I actually have some faith in!
It's the major reason why I'm trying to phase out gasoline power in my household as much as possible. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

LBrown59 · Apr 20, 2006

Now I'm thinking of moving the tank inside to the fruit cellar
[[[[[[[ [[[[[[[
& create a fire hazzard.

MikePA · Apr 20, 2006

Now I'm thinking of moving the tank inside to the fruit cellar & create a fire hazzard. 
What? There's nothing unusual or hazardous about having a fuel oil tank inside, assuming it's installed correctly, i.e., outside fill and outside vent.

arthr31 · Apr 21, 2006

No fire hazard.

* Oil will not burn unless heated to 140°
• Fuel oil is non-explosive
• Risk of carbon monoxide exposure is lower for fuel oil than
natural gas
• When an oil burner goes out of adjustment, fuel oil is safer
than gaseous fuels because SMOKE is generated BEFORE
carbon monoxide is released

oil basically has to be either compressed or atomized to a fine spray to become combustible...

cowboydoc · Apr 21, 2006

We've been using biodiesel for years now in old and new tractors. NEVER had one single clogged filter on old and new tractors. Just maintain according to your manual and you will be just fine.

michigandon · Apr 21, 2006

The house I grew up in had a fuel oil furnace and the tank was in the basement. Guess what, I'm still alive and kickin'!

Lotsta folks have/had setups like that in cold climates. If you plan on using B99 in your furnace in the winter it's an especially prudent thing to do.

Schultz · Apr 21, 2006

Yep, it's GE Wacker, very helpful and knowledgeable people there. They didn't recommend running above b50 for the furnace yet. They're experimenting with additives to see what runs best above b50 for home heat. I said I didn't mind experimenting, and I would have the tank half gone by the time things started getting cold again, since I use it to heat my hot water too. My ratio after fill ended up at about b52. I'll post how it runs after a few weeks, we still have some cold nights with frost for maybe another 2-3 weeks.

As far as clogging, I don't think even b20 would do much. My fuel oil tank is over 20 years old before I started using B20 this year, the Kubota bx is only three years. I pulled the filter last night on the furnace just to see if there was anything on the filter or in the cup. There was about 3 tablespoons of black liquid in the bottom of the filter cup that I poured out, but the filter wasn't clogged. Also when I changed the filter a couple years ago with high sulfur fuel it stunk up the basement for a while. There was very little smell to this fuel, I like that and the wife didn't even notice I did the change.

5030 · Apr 21, 2006

I looked at the last post first and assumed GE Wacker was Wacker Silicone in Adrain, Mi. Wacker has polluted the River Raisin Watershed with their chemical sludge.

I think the place glows an night. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Schultz · Apr 22, 2006

Nope GE Wacker is a different company, but it's a small community around us and with a name like wacker, I would imagine they're likely related.

As far as the furnace goes I did have to make some adjustments. I just couldn't get the furnace to burn smoothly. At first I thought it was the fuel didn't mix well and figured it would go away once it got warm, but it didn't or it clogged the filter. I just couldn't adjust the the air down enough, it was like the blower was blowing the flame out. It was burning smokey and I couldn't tune it with the air adjustment. I went up one nozzle size from .65 to .75 gph. Once I did that I was able to get a clean burning flame and quiet furnace. Anyone have any ideas why the fuel/air mixture needed to be adjusted? My thoughts are the viscosity is much thicker with higher bio and a .65 gph nozzle becomes something like .5 gph? When I drew 5 gallons out of the tank for the tractor it definitely seems thicker than standard diesel. By the way .65 is the smallest that is recommended in the furnace manual.

butzkeg · Apr 25, 2006

Ok, good, I see there are a lot of Michiganders chiming in on this one. So can I just switch to running B-20 on both my JD 4300 and my 04.5 Duramax with no changes to the fuel system and engine? A local place will deliver B-20 to me for $2.47 a gallon, which is even cheaper than the off-road dyed.

Thanks in advance.

mattn · Apr 25, 2006

I am not from your neck of the woods, but Ive run a lot of BD through a Duramax, TDI, and tractor....

B20 should not pose any problems for you. Just to be on the safe side watch those cold (30F) temps.

Also make sure that the fuel is clear. It is a good indicator of quality.

michigandon · Apr 26, 2006

$2.47 a gallon??? Man, I need to get a bulk tank at my place.

Schultz · Apr 27, 2006

My neighbor has a Powerstroke Ford that he uses to tow a number of things. He runs the B20 in the winter and B99 in the summer. He claims he won't go back because he can't stand the smell that regular fuel has compared to bio. Besides b99 is cheaper than regular diesel with the subsidy. He fills up at GE Wacker in Manchester.

GE Wacker claims to be the largest distributor and seller of bio-diesel in Michigan. If you can get them to deliver, I would recommend them for price and quality. They claim that any bio-diesel in the area is likely coming from them regardless of who sells it, they may not make the blend but provide the base bio stock for the blend. They're buying it by the train car tanker.

LBrown59 · Apr 27, 2006

I just bought R E D diesel for $2.50

coffeeman · May 7, 2006

Heard an ad for 60 minutes tv show. They are going to run something on alternative fuels. I'm guessing it's about bio fuel, but they didn't really say. I'm going to tune in. Popular Mechanics magazine ran a nice article about alternative fuels; last month or month before. It is a nice outline on a lot of different kinds of energy.

Cheers....Coffeeman