Black Angus beef ( opinions please)

cowboydoc · Feb 17, 2006

Ken,

CowboyDoc.. I think you need to brush up on your cattle knowledge & history.. 
Yes the reds were registered then. But from the early 1900's to the middle 1950's there was no registry. Much of the lines were lost. Around the 50's there was a revival in the red market. Abroad they are not much of anything. Today they are getting the breed back up with more registries. Take a look at the registry, organization, and diversity in the black angus. It is unparalled in any other breed. You know what the genetics are. They are required to be DNA tested and the genetics are there. The Red Angus is making a comeback. They are getting some of it back in order but you do not have the genetic testing. There have been several scandals within that organization that the cattle were not what they were said to be and complete registries had to be redone. They operate on a shoestring budget and the reliability is just not there like it is with the black angus. As I said earlier it was simply color choice that sent the red angus one way and the black angus the other way.

As far as the other groups well I will stand on the objectionable evidence of the angus. For instance with the Wagyu I see absolutely zero scientific evidence on that website.

cowboydoc · Feb 17, 2006

I looked a little farther into the Wagyu and guess what they are crossing with to get their results? Angus.

nobull1 · Feb 17, 2006

(
I'd agree with everything Cowboydoc said about them though. We've raised Angus crosses for many years. The only thing I have some reservation about is "temperment". Some of those bull calves can be pretty "spirited" when young although they do calm down as the get older and get used to being handled and worked. )

I agree with your comments pertaining to temperment. We also raise/breed black baldy cows mostly to Black Angus bulls and those loose legs can be trouble /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif(calves just sting, yearlings break bones, mature can't be bothered). The Hereford cross seems to keep the cows and offspring in line...usually.

kensfarm · Feb 17, 2006

"But from the early 1900's to the middle 1950's there was no registry."

Yes.. but only in America where they stopped allowing the Red to be registered.. the registry continued outside the US.

Have you ever seen a red angus born from an all black angus herd? Saying the genetics are different would be the same as having two sons w/ different color hair.. each son carries the same genetics for the different hair colors.. and will be passed on to the next generation.

Just because the cattle has a red hide doesn't mean the meat would be any different.

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"CowboyDoc.. I think you need to brush up on your cattle knowledge & history.. "

Let me apologize for this statement.. I def. could have used a better way to get my point across.. and not sound demeaning or hurtful. My apologies CowboyDoc.

nobull1 · Feb 17, 2006

[quote.

Have you ever seen a red Angus born from an all black Angus herd?
Just because the cattle has a red hide doesn't mean the meat would be any different.

)

I had a red Bull that came from a baldy bull and baldy cow that were pure at least a couple of generations back Black Angus/Hereford. Doesn't really mean much just thought I would stick it in /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

rox · Feb 17, 2006

Cowboydoc,
Blushing as I write this but I have always been curious. For artificial insemination, using Bull sperm and putting it in a cow (is a female cow a heffer?). How do they get the sperm?

I know for humans, for sperm donations they send you to a little room with Playboy magazines. How does that work on the Bulls. Please answer if you can do so, hmmm, in purley mecial terms. In such a way tha it doesn't make anyone at TBN uncomfortable. Perhaps you won't be able to anser at all then. If so that is ok. I guess I can go to my grave not ever knowing how exactly they get the Bull to donate his sperm.

rox · Feb 17, 2006

Cowboydoc,
My hsuband owned 2 restaurants and was very successful. He is a fantastic French Chef. He served Black Angus beef at his restaurants. It really is better beef. I ate top fo the line steaks for 30 years and, really the Black Angus is the best.

There is antoher popular beef, I forget the name it is from Japan. It cost a fortune, and IMHO wasn't as good as Black Angus. Anyway, itneresting side note, apparently the cattle sleep on one side predominately. In Japan they mark their cattle and sell the side the steer doesn't sleep on for more money because it is more tender. My hsuband will always order the Black Angus if it is on the menu, as do all the other top chefs. Tehse chefs eat a lot of beef, most people don't eat out 5 days a week, and can make the close comparisons. The chefs do and they choose Black Angus because it is better.

cowboydoc · Feb 17, 2006

So you don't think that losing 50 years of records means anything? The black angus can be traced 100 years in the past. That is NOT true for the red angus. And I'm not saying red angus cattle are bad at all. But dang there is not the lineage there. Most of what they have for the most part is guess work. And red angus abroad makes up less than 1% of the total cattle population. That was 1999 numbers. It may be more now. I suggest you look at the red angus registry and then look at the black angus registry. It's much more than sons of different hair color. And EVEN IF you were talking about the same gentics and the same sons not ever son or daughter is worth what the next one is. You need that specific one that produced not the "black sheep" brother that did nothing and was a rebel. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I am not putting down red angus at all. But to say that the breed compares to that of the black angus is ludicrous. The black angus registry is many times over that of the red angus registry. The amount of research and money put into advancing the black angus compared to the red angus is like a raindrop in a rain storm. It just is not there for the red angus.

ronjhall · Feb 17, 2006

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
My 2 boys got a early education on how it's done with the 4-H Angus cattle that we raised in the 70's. Here is a link to a site that explains how it is done with dairy cows. Click here

cowboydoc · Feb 17, 2006

Hi Rox,

Nice to hear from someone from France. As to your question on how to get the sperm alot of times the bulls are shocked. I know it sounds cruel but it really isn't that bad. The method illustrated in the article by Ron works if you can get the bull to cooperate. Many times they won't though. We will run them into a chute, tranquilize them, and then collect them by placing small shocks in strategic places. It really is painless.

Then the sperm is either AI'd into a cow or what we are doing alot of is surrogate cattle. The reason being we can purchase eggs from some of the best cows in the country, this is where having solid genetics really matters, and in a lab the egg is fertilized with the semen. Then it is implanted into a surrogate cow.