Block heater installation question

[RedHawkRidge]

I have a X595 and asked the JD dealer to install a block heater. I've been lucky with getting it started in the Wisconsin winters for a couple of years, but it's touch and go.
Got the unit back from the service dept, plugged it in, and checked on it 5-6 hrs later (by feeling the adaptor that the heater element plugs into) -- cold.
So I decided to look at the heater's coil and found that it was loosely screwed in -- I screwed it out with my fingers. More critically, the copper coating had melted right off the u-shaped coil.
And then I found that the location on the block where the unit was bolted onto was not opened up.
Question: the part no. description of the heater is "coolant heater" -- isn't the block supposed to have a plug knocked out so the element can sit in the coolant?
thanks for any thoughts.
Jim
PS I emailed JD, got a limp response from the parts people which said to consult the operators manual. I wanted to respond nastywise that nothing exists in the manuals on this, but instead I asked for a product engineer to talk to. We'll see....

 

[JD5210]

You might want to go to the John Deere Parts URL. It will show a picture of where it goes, looks like and part numbers. Hope this helps. You should not be able to get it out without tools, it should have had locite on it. These kits come with instructions, maybe the dealer still has them that you can give you.

John Deere - Parts Catalog

 

[joes_427_vette]

My 4110 came with a " cold weather package " that included a block heater. Have no idea if it was dealer installed or factory. In the 4 years I have owned it I haven't plugged it in as it is kept inside. A block heater was in the deal when I bought my NH TC 55 but it was overlooked at time of delivery. For what I have to pay to transport it back to the dealer I could buy four of them.

 

[diesel466]

Jim, By looking at parts diagram I would say yes a soft plug gets removed and threaded adapter bolted on and heater screwed in. If dealer just did this I would be talking to them.

 

[Willl]

isn't the block supposed to have a plug knocked out so the element can sit in the coolant?

Yup, sounds like somebody messed up.
Can you post pics ?
Is this your setup ?

 

[KennedyDiesel]

Sounds like a MAJOR Dumass at the dealer.

On teh smaller Yanmars the block heater is in a bolt on casting as shown in the pic above. This casting bolts onto teh cylinder head, BUT the frost plug that lies within needs to be removed so that coolant can get in.

Your heater is now junk thanks to the installer. It burned itself up tryinmg to transfer it's heat to air. Lucky it did not start a fire.

 

[Zebrafive]

Could the dealer have forgot to put coolant back in?

 

[RedHawkRidge]

Thanks for the comments. When I talked to the dealer and his service guy, they got real cautious about what happened. I told them that they should contact JD directly for the proper installation instructions. That was 6 days ago; yesterday I was told that JD had not responded yet. Of course I'm getting the run-around -- the dealer isn't looking forward to having to order a replacement element and eat the cost.
I'm torn -- this dealer has been very good about negotiating prices and taking trade-ins, both on JD equipment and Stihl chain saws, so I don't want to burn bridges. But I'm disappointed in the apparent amateurish installation, and at his foot-dragging. I guess you just have to accept some headaches when doing business with sellers.
Jim
PS Yes, the schematic is exactly what the adaptor and the heater look like. The heater is a u-shaped coil with a surface coating of copper over ceramic. When I pulled it, the copper was melted off the ceramic on the bend; in fact I found a bead of copper lying in the bottom of the adaptor.
And of course, we are due for sub-zero temps and more snow. What a pisser.

 

[KennedyDiesel]

So if I follow, you have the heater out and there has been no coolant lost. Is it dry inside the housing?

If so, look inside for the frost plug. May need to take the housing off, but then you'll see for sure and can point out to the dealer ah-duh doesn't that plug need to come out in order to immerse my IMMERSION style heater?

 

[Willl]

But I'm disappointed in the apparent amateurish installation, and at his foot-dragging. I guess you just have to accept some headaches when doing business with sellers.

Disappointed would be a understatement. I'd be POed.

Were not talking about some 'Joe Blow' repair yard, this is JD

Just tell 'em politely this is their F up on an easy project and work with them to make it right.

 

[Zebrafive]

I am very surprised the dealer is acting this way. If I were this dealer I would make this right and eat the cost as a cost of doing business. I would even offer you a percent off your next service or parts order.

Then I would have a meeting with my service manager, he should have handled the problem right in the first place.

But unforunately I am not a JD dealer.

 

[radioman]

wow! I hope you havent changed anything on the tractor, and show the frost plug still installed. you need to take as many pictures as you can and make copies of the work receipt. I am sure JD will be embarrassed about that, be sure you point out that you have the work receipt for work done for heater and have pics of plug still installed with burned out element. Explain politely and calmly that you never expected this from a JD dealer since an authorized dealer should be a top notch place to go and get equipment and service. Make sure you stress that you want and expect top notch service since you still like your john deere tractor.

 

[MichKubota]

Radioman - Good advice about taking pictures and approach to be used.

This should all be wrapped up in an email to dealer followed by a phone call. The phone call is just to let them know to look at email.

It is easier to communicate and frame the issue in writing and gives tracking ability to escalate the issue within JD.

 

[RedHawkRidge]

Finally getting somewhere.
Both the dealer and I sent emails to JD asking for clarification of the installation steps. The dealer (who has always been a straight shooter) says he has not received an answer after 10 days. In the meantime I sent an email to JD, which began a cycle of 3 emails sent and 3 emails returned. Finally the last response came from a product specialist at JD corporate, and it contained a description of the procedure for installation.
And yes, unsurprisingly, the first step is to drain the coolant, then remove the plug, THEN install the adaptor and heater element, and finally replace the coolant. According to the email, the plug comes off with little effort.
The dealer is getting in a replacement heater element, and will install it, along with replacing the coolant, all at no cost. I'm satisfied (assuming no other hickups...).
I think the problem may have been partly due to the dealer ordering the 2 parts separately, instead of a kit containing both. I'm going to give JD the benefit of the doubt that the kit would have had instructions in it.l
JimP

 

[Zebrafive]

Glad to see this is going to be favorably resolved.

 

[Mechanos]

Finally getting somewhere.
Both the dealer and I sent emails to JD asking for clarification of the installation steps. The dealer (who has always been a straight shooter) says he has not received an answer after 10 days. In the meantime I sent an email to JD, which began a cycle of 3 emails sent and 3 emails returned. Finally the last response came from a product specialist at JD corporate, and it contained a description of the procedure for installation.
And yes, unsurprisingly, the first step is to drain the coolant, then remove the plug, THEN install the adaptor and heater element, and finally replace the coolant. According to the email, the plug comes off with little effort.
The dealer is getting in a replacement heater element, and will install it, along with replacing the coolant, all at no cost. I'm satisfied (assuming no other hickups...).
I think the problem may have been partly due to the dealer ordering the 2 parts separately, instead of a kit containing both. I'm going to give JD the benefit of the doubt that the kit would have had instructions in it.l
JimP

I think you're being to easy on them. ANY mechanic or tech or whatever you want to call them that's worth even a 1/4 of their salt would know that a block heater element must be in the coolant..... instructions or not. For someone who is supposed to be a qualified servicer to make such a completely bonehead mistake like this tells me that they aren't qualified to check the oil.... let alone install and parts.

 

[Willl]

Gota agree 100% with ya on that one Mechanos.

 

[BeeferMan]

I think you're being to easy on them. ANY mechanic or tech or whatever you want to call them that's worth even a 1/4 of their salt would know that a block heater element must be in the coolant..... instructions or not. For someone who is supposed to be a qualified servicer to make such a completely bonehead mistake like this tells me that they aren't qualified to check the oil.... let alone install and parts.

Yes, agree with that... s**t happens, but I wouldn't want the mechanic who did this working on my brakes. And the dealer (and by "dealer" I mean someone - anyone! in the entire organization) should have more expertise and experience that that - they shouldn't have to contact JD to know that a block heater needs to be immersed...