I was planning to purchase a BB to level out some fields to be used for food plots. They are currently somewhat irregular in contour, enough to prevent disc harrow and landscape rake from making full contact across their full width. I know that I will encounter partially or completely buried rocks that are not bedrock and which are removable. Although some may require backhoe to free up. Question is when using BB on rocky ground, how do you avoid significant damage to implement or 3-pt hitch??
BOXBLADE VS ROCKS
- Thread starter flINTLOCK
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art
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Start with a disc harrow as stones shouldn't break it. Then you will have some loose soil to work with which you need for a box blade to work.
If you bought a decent BB, there should be no damage. Go slow until you know what is down there.
Decent is not the 6' wide 350# specials. A decent box is going to be 100 pounds per foot of width. A good box is 125 pounds per foot and a commercial duty box is 150 or more pounds per foot. This is just my scale and not some industry standard.
Using a 880# 66" box, there have been no problems or damage in 6 years. They do a very nice job pulling out the rocks so you can haul them away. Obviously, some are too big to mess with, those need a BH.
First knock down the high spots and drag the dirt to the low spots. Set the scarifiers so they are 1-2 inches lower than the blade. Then set the tilt of the box so the nose is level to very slightly up. Then drag away. It may take some number of passes in all directions to cut the sod so you can work the dirt. Keep at it. (or disk it first)
After you have the rough grading done and you have found the rocky spots, tip the box agressively forward, Extend the scarifiers all the way down, lower it down so the scarifiers are down all the way into the dirt and the box's blade is just riding on or above the surface, when you get a "bite" pull up on the 3pt lever to bring it to the surface. Basketball size rocks can be moved in the box with it raised so the scarifiers are just at ground level or in a couple inches. Rocks much smaller will fall between the scarifier shanks and much larger may not drag well.
After you have most of the big rocks out, you can bring the scarifiers up so they are at the 1-2 inch level below the blade or take them out entirely. Keep the agressive nose down tilt and cut the high spots down more.
YMMV
jb
Decent is not the 6' wide 350# specials. A decent box is going to be 100 pounds per foot of width. A good box is 125 pounds per foot and a commercial duty box is 150 or more pounds per foot. This is just my scale and not some industry standard.
Using a 880# 66" box, there have been no problems or damage in 6 years. They do a very nice job pulling out the rocks so you can haul them away. Obviously, some are too big to mess with, those need a BH.
First knock down the high spots and drag the dirt to the low spots. Set the scarifiers so they are 1-2 inches lower than the blade. Then set the tilt of the box so the nose is level to very slightly up. Then drag away. It may take some number of passes in all directions to cut the sod so you can work the dirt. Keep at it. (or disk it first)
After you have the rough grading done and you have found the rocky spots, tip the box agressively forward, Extend the scarifiers all the way down, lower it down so the scarifiers are down all the way into the dirt and the box's blade is just riding on or above the surface, when you get a "bite" pull up on the 3pt lever to bring it to the surface. Basketball size rocks can be moved in the box with it raised so the scarifiers are just at ground level or in a couple inches. Rocks much smaller will fall between the scarifier shanks and much larger may not drag well.
After you have most of the big rocks out, you can bring the scarifiers up so they are at the 1-2 inch level below the blade or take them out entirely. Keep the agressive nose down tilt and cut the high spots down more.
YMMV
jb
Egon
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Whatever you do when digging rocks with a rear implement go slow. You can actually damage the tractor if the stop is real sudden at a higher speed.
3RRL
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flint,
Also, if you have the scarifiers down, be sure to raise your boxblade up when making a turn or you can bend them that way. Going slow enough is the key when "trolling" for rocks. Most of the smaller ones will "pop" out that way. Going slow will give you time to raise the 3pt to help raise and/or also stop the tractor if you hit a really big one. If you do pull out a really big one, you can use the fel bucket to move it out of the way.
Also, if you have the scarifiers down, be sure to raise your boxblade up when making a turn or you can bend them that way. Going slow enough is the key when "trolling" for rocks. Most of the smaller ones will "pop" out that way. Going slow will give you time to raise the 3pt to help raise and/or also stop the tractor if you hit a really big one. If you do pull out a really big one, you can use the fel bucket to move it out of the way.
zeuspaul
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I damaged my tractor twice by using the box blade with large rocks. $1000 a pop!
Zeuspaul
Zeuspaul
zeuspaul said:
Gotta ask, what tractor do you have and what did you break? And what actions were you doing just prior to the break? And what would you give as advice to not break our tractors?
jb
3RRL, do you mean real sharp turns or any turns? I leave everything down and do gradual turns and medium turns all the time....no all the way stand on one brake turns though.
zeuspaul
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I was making a road while going backward on the side of a slope. Twice I broke the casting where the right lower lift arm attaches to the tractor.
The first time I was raising and tilting the boxblade while trying to pry a rock up. I usually grade downhill to make use of the weight of the tractor which adds to the forces. However I believe it was primarily the odd angle that caused the problem.
The second time I was more careful with the tractor as I thought I knew its limits. I backed into a bolder. The lower arm bent and the casting broke again. I believe the casting broke because the lower arm was bent and the forces came at the casting at a bad angle.
Thinking back I wonder if it relates to an earlier problem I had with the tractor. One week after I got the tractor the lower arm came off because the bolts holding the arm in place were never tightened. The arm wedged itself into the back of the tractor and was bent. The dealer replaced the pin under warranty. I pointed out the bent arm to the mechanic and he hit it with a sledge a couple of times to straighten it out.
Now I think the arm was weakened. In its weakened state I believe it bends more easily and a bent lower arm is not a good thing when backing up.
That explains the second problem. I was easier on the tractor but the arm was weaker yet from the previous incident so it bent easier and then I snapped the casting again.
I am going to have the lower arm replaced this time.
Its a Kubota L4330. I don't fault the tractor as I do push it to the limit. However I have noted forged connections on some other tractors which I think would be a bit stronger.
Zeuspaul
The first time I was raising and tilting the boxblade while trying to pry a rock up. I usually grade downhill to make use of the weight of the tractor which adds to the forces. However I believe it was primarily the odd angle that caused the problem.
The second time I was more careful with the tractor as I thought I knew its limits. I backed into a bolder. The lower arm bent and the casting broke again. I believe the casting broke because the lower arm was bent and the forces came at the casting at a bad angle.
Thinking back I wonder if it relates to an earlier problem I had with the tractor. One week after I got the tractor the lower arm came off because the bolts holding the arm in place were never tightened. The arm wedged itself into the back of the tractor and was bent. The dealer replaced the pin under warranty. I pointed out the bent arm to the mechanic and he hit it with a sledge a couple of times to straighten it out.
Now I think the arm was weakened. In its weakened state I believe it bends more easily and a bent lower arm is not a good thing when backing up.
That explains the second problem. I was easier on the tractor but the arm was weaker yet from the previous incident so it bent easier and then I snapped the casting again.
I am going to have the lower arm replaced this time.
Its a Kubota L4330. I don't fault the tractor as I do push it to the limit. However I have noted forged connections on some other tractors which I think would be a bit stronger.
Zeuspaul
I also have used a blade as a bulldozer while backing. Sometimes hear odd creaking & other warning sounds. Haven't broken anything - yet - probably because heavier ag utility style tractor and wide-set, snug stabilizer bars and, maybe, luck.
Probably all of us should be more aware of the fact that 3pt linkages are designed for pulling and, therefore, are more prone to bending/breaking while pushing, particularly when pushing at an angle.
Probably all of us should be more aware of the fact that 3pt linkages are designed for pulling and, therefore, are more prone to bending/breaking while pushing, particularly when pushing at an angle.
jinman
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zeuspaul said:
Is your lower arm captive in a fork like mine is? In the attachment, you can see that the pin is supported by the fork on both sides. For this to break, it would take a real shock. I think this arrangement has almost as much strength in reverse as going forward. I take it slow with my boxblade, but I've hit roots and rocks that bring me to an immediate wheel-spinning stop while going forward. I think my casting and mount is pretty strong.
Attachments
zeuspaul
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Jim, it is captive in a fork similar to yours. The similar piece that broke would be the right side of the fork shown in your picture which is partially hidden by the arm.
It has also brought my tractor to a stop. I believe the problem was rotational forces and a bent lower arm and the force being applied to just one side of the boxblade. The setup is probably rather strong if the forces are straight in or straight out. My top and tilt makes it easy to significantly alter the angles the force is applied to the *fork*. Also using the weight of the tractor by going downhill significantly increases the force.
Zeuspaul
It has also brought my tractor to a stop. I believe the problem was rotational forces and a bent lower arm and the force being applied to just one side of the boxblade. The setup is probably rather strong if the forces are straight in or straight out. My top and tilt makes it easy to significantly alter the angles the force is applied to the *fork*. Also using the weight of the tractor by going downhill significantly increases the force.
Zeuspaul
Zeuspaul,
The 3pt is only strong when pulling. Backing up and pushing is "bad". I only like to back up to push small piles of earh that are already loosened.
Even with all that said, it does sound like you were the benefactor of a freak situation. Definitely get a new arm. Once bent, the strength is reduced. You could probably weld on some re-enforcement if you are handy with a welder.
jb
The 3pt is only strong when pulling. Backing up and pushing is "bad". I only like to back up to push small piles of earh that are already loosened.
Even with all that said, it does sound like you were the benefactor of a freak situation. Definitely get a new arm. Once bent, the strength is reduced. You could probably weld on some re-enforcement if you are handy with a welder.
jb
zeuspaul
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Bud
It might be bad but I know of no other way of making a road laterally on a steep slope with my existing equipment. If I go forward the tractor would roll before the boxblade were in a position to grade. Going backward I can make level ground before the tractor gets there.
It seems to work fine even with hard dirt. I have only had problems with large (200-300 lb+) imbedded rocks.
Zeuspaul
It might be bad but I know of no other way of making a road laterally on a steep slope with my existing equipment. If I go forward the tractor would roll before the boxblade were in a position to grade. Going backward I can make level ground before the tractor gets there.
It seems to work fine even with hard dirt. I have only had problems with large (200-300 lb+) imbedded rocks.
Zeuspaul
Egon
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Use the bucket for working side hill. 
3RRL
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zeuspaul,
I think John Bud gave some great instructions on popping out boulders. That is exactly what I do with great success an no damage from that whatsoever. As stated here, the lower drag links were designed to drag your boxblade. However, if they are strong enough, using the boxblade in reverse as a bulldozer is a tremendous tool in shaping, tilting and contouring an area or say a road.
I have done quite a bit of road and trail building on my rural property as shown in this link. Pushing in New Roads and Trails
Explained in detail is the technique I use both pulling and dozing with the box blade. I suffered bent drag links too, but reinforced them quite a lot as shown in the link. And my drag links are huge as they were. I beat the crap out of my stuff pushing out 1,000lb boulders.
3RRL, do you mean real sharp turns or any turns? I leave everything down and do gradual turns and medium turns all the time....no all the way stand on one brake turns though. (from JohnBud)
John,
I'm not sure gradual turns would be too bad, but I found not having the scarifiers facing straight forward can bend them. So if it was me, I would just lift the box up and avoid accidentally catching them on something during a turn. Here's what happened to me. I was cutting a gutter with the boxblade severely tilted and I had a couple of the rippers down to aid in the groove I wanted to cut.
In that position, the side that is down is actually back away from the tractor more the the up end. Not much, but enough to see the boxblade is then not square with the tractor. I think it has to do with the geometry of the link attachments that causes it. Anyway, after cutting a while I noticed those 2 shanks were bent to the side. I hit several rocks and hard spots, but that is not unusual for my ground. I bent the shanks pretty easily. I replace the shanks and promptly bent them again doing the same thing. Finally, I think it was Bird here on TBN told me not to have the shanks down when turning or when the box is not pulling square to the tractor's direction. He was right.
The damaged shanks were not just from tilting it either. They are a result of the millions of boulders I ran into with my 55hp Kama. There were times the 7,500lb tractor was stopped dead and others that it just straightened them out or popped them off. Since then, I did a beef up/improvement job on my boxblade. One of the most important ones was to add supports for the scarifiers. I used 5/8" thick steel welding up "supports". I have not had one single shank break since that improvement, even doing the road work in the thread above.
I think John Bud gave some great instructions on popping out boulders. That is exactly what I do with great success an no damage from that whatsoever. As stated here, the lower drag links were designed to drag your boxblade. However, if they are strong enough, using the boxblade in reverse as a bulldozer is a tremendous tool in shaping, tilting and contouring an area or say a road.
I have done quite a bit of road and trail building on my rural property as shown in this link. Pushing in New Roads and Trails
Explained in detail is the technique I use both pulling and dozing with the box blade. I suffered bent drag links too, but reinforced them quite a lot as shown in the link. And my drag links are huge as they were. I beat the crap out of my stuff pushing out 1,000lb boulders.
3RRL, do you mean real sharp turns or any turns? I leave everything down and do gradual turns and medium turns all the time....no all the way stand on one brake turns though. (from JohnBud)
John,
I'm not sure gradual turns would be too bad, but I found not having the scarifiers facing straight forward can bend them. So if it was me, I would just lift the box up and avoid accidentally catching them on something during a turn. Here's what happened to me. I was cutting a gutter with the boxblade severely tilted and I had a couple of the rippers down to aid in the groove I wanted to cut.
In that position, the side that is down is actually back away from the tractor more the the up end. Not much, but enough to see the boxblade is then not square with the tractor. I think it has to do with the geometry of the link attachments that causes it. Anyway, after cutting a while I noticed those 2 shanks were bent to the side. I hit several rocks and hard spots, but that is not unusual for my ground. I bent the shanks pretty easily. I replace the shanks and promptly bent them again doing the same thing. Finally, I think it was Bird here on TBN told me not to have the shanks down when turning or when the box is not pulling square to the tractor's direction. He was right.
The damaged shanks were not just from tilting it either. They are a result of the millions of boulders I ran into with my 55hp Kama. There were times the 7,500lb tractor was stopped dead and others that it just straightened them out or popped them off. Since then, I did a beef up/improvement job on my boxblade. One of the most important ones was to add supports for the scarifiers. I used 5/8" thick steel welding up "supports". I have not had one single shank break since that improvement, even doing the road work in the thread above.
Rob,
Innovative as always. There is a lot more beef with those channels you made.
I think there are at least 3 things in my favor (not bending wise). First your tractor is larger and more powerful than mine, second your box is wider and even with your additions probably lighter and third I think your shanks are longer than mine to get to the same depth. You get more leverage to bend / break them easier.
To drop the scarifiers, I just pull the lever. The scar bar then drops down and locks in completely below the cross brace the 3 pt is mounted to. OK, you caught me. I actually am too wimpy and have arms to short to just pull from the seat, so I climb onto the box, stand on the scar bar and work the lever. Takes all of 15 seconds. Hyd would be nicer, but $$$. Not easily depth adjustable like yours, but usually I want them either all the way down or out of the way.
For reference, the ends on the box are 1/2" plate. The unit is 66" wide and supposed to be 830# and be built with 3/8 plate. But, they built mine with the same materials as the hydraulic box (1/2" plate) and it scales 880#. Had to order it and the dealer hadn't even seen one in this class. Paint was still wet in the runs when it was delivered.
jb
Innovative as always. There is a lot more beef with those channels you made.
I think there are at least 3 things in my favor (not bending wise). First your tractor is larger and more powerful than mine, second your box is wider and even with your additions probably lighter and third I think your shanks are longer than mine to get to the same depth. You get more leverage to bend / break them easier.
To drop the scarifiers, I just pull the lever. The scar bar then drops down and locks in completely below the cross brace the 3 pt is mounted to. OK, you caught me. I actually am too wimpy and have arms to short to just pull from the seat, so I climb onto the box, stand on the scar bar and work the lever. Takes all of 15 seconds. Hyd would be nicer, but $$$. Not easily depth adjustable like yours, but usually I want them either all the way down or out of the way.
For reference, the ends on the box are 1/2" plate. The unit is 66" wide and supposed to be 830# and be built with 3/8 plate. But, they built mine with the same materials as the hydraulic box (1/2" plate) and it scales 880#. Had to order it and the dealer hadn't even seen one in this class. Paint was still wet in the runs when it was delivered.
jb
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How big are these fields your talking about? It might be quicker to just disc, scatter seed and let nature take it's course. A couple years of this and it should smooth out fairly nice I would think.
