Brakes for 425 & 1430

[Eaglepb]

I wanted to clarify the brake systems on these two units. I understand that the PT425 has only a mechanical parking brake. Does the 1430 have a braking system that allows braking while tramming or holding on a hill?

I am looking at these units and really want a braking system as my property in WV is very hilly. We will be working on slopes for most jobs. Concerned about loss of power and thus no brakes.

How costly is the "Braketender" system ?

thanks..again..Bob..Chalreston,WV. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Bob999]

For all PT models service braking is provided by the hydrostatic drive system. PT models differ in the parking/emergency braking system.

The braking system on the 425 and 1430 is the same. Parking brakes are a pin in slot system on the front wheels only. There is no emergency brake.

The 1445 has a brake integral with the wheel motors that is electrically activiated by a switch on the instrument panel. This provides parking brakes and might be considered an emergency brake by some.

The 1845/1850 have the brake tender system. This system has spring applied brakes on all 4 wheels. The brakes are hydraulically released by system hydraulic pressure. You can manually apply them to use for parking (they automatically apply for parking when you shut the machine down) and they automatically apply if system hydraulic pressure is lost. This is a true emergency brake system.

In my opinion, if you are working on slopes where a runaway could result in injury the 1845/1850 is the only adequately safe system in the PT line.

 

[Eaglepb]

thanks for you input. I was afraid this was the situation. I own a case 450 dozer that is hydro owered. Brakes are no good on it. When it loses power the only brakes is the blade. We have to be very careful with it. thanks.again.

 

[Rip]

Bob999s description of the PT braking systems is correct on all counts.

I would only say that the internal wet disc system as found on all models from the 1445 and up (except the 1845 & 1850) is perhaps more effective than implied. It is a common system for hydraulicaly driven machinery, and with the possible exception of a worst case burst hose, true "run away" on a very steep hill, will function adequately as an emergency brake.

That said, the Brake Tender system is better, and is used in the mining machines that PTs parrent company also produces so it meets strict MSHA requirements which are arguably overkill for most other situations. My 1845 is so equipped.

While it would be possible to retrofit the Brake Tender system to some other models, it would not be practical in my opinion (quite costly). I feel that the pin-type parking brake found on the smaller models is inadequate for any sort of hilly terrain and that all models should at least be equipped with the internal wet disc system.

If you can justify going up to the 1445, I think you will be well satisfied with its overall performance including braking.

Good Luck, Rip

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

Boy oh boy. Even my lowly JD L130 has a brake!

 

[smartguyz]

Sure, even my lowly JD318 has a brake.

Sure, the PT425 has brakes - they are not traditional, however. They are the result of reducing hydraulic fluid flow to the wheel motors. In everyday use, they are very effective, and will stop the tractor in a very short distance when you simply lift off the treadle. It has proven very effective on my property, which has some steep areas. With the 425, I can have a full load of dirt, and if I need to stop, even on the slope, I can simply lift off the treadle, and it will come to a quick stop. I've tried this on the 318, and (as any tractor guy knows), if the front loader is full, and you are pointed nose downhill, this can get death-defying in a hurry. The 425 has no such drama. Since the 318's brakes are only on the rear (typical for any tractor, cept the PT), if the rear end is lightly loaded, there is insufficient braking power, and the only way to stop is to dump the load. It is really terrifying, let me tell you.

In my opinion, under normal conditions, I greatly greatly prefer the PT425's setup - it is safer, more controllable, and works, unless you blow a hose, which is a pretty rare occurence.

Sincerely,

Rob /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

Well, on my JD L130 if I load up the trailer and cruise down the steep hill behind my house...if I take my foot off of the accelerator the tractor will slow but not stop. It all depends upon the amount of weight I'm hauling. So if I want to (need to) stop on a hill I have to use the brakes.

Are you saying that the PT doesn't work this way? If you let up on the gas (so to speak) it will always come to a quick stop regardless of incline and load? Because that would be different.

 

[Rip]

Any of the PTs will slow down and even stop on light to moderate terrain by just releasing the treadle to a varying degree depending on load, oil type and temperature and general condition of hyd wheel motors and pump.

Under steeper conditions one may have to give it a little opposite treadle. While one can opperate like this, it has its limitations and can be frustrating and even unsafe under certain conditions and with less experienced operators.

Up to an including the model 2430, your only other option is to "drop anchor" by dropping the loader bucket or such (won't do much good with a mower though). Models from 1445 and up DO have effective spring-apply hydraulic release disc brakes that, although not "service brakes as such, operate "on/off" but will bring you to a final stop and hold you. They work quite well.

It is the pin-type parking brake on the smaller models that will not function to slow you down, acting much like the "Park" function on an automatic transmission. In an emergency, one can try to apply this pin-type brake, but there is only a slight chance it will engage, and will certainly be damaged in the attempt. Your time will be better spent thinking of or doing something else.

In my opinion, PT should rethink making standard, or at least optional, spring apply disc brakes for all models (even if only on two wheels). At the OEM level, they are not that expensive or complicated.

Good Luck

 

[toolz_not_toyz]

Thanks for that info Rip. It's pretty disappointing. Just when the PT425 (or even 1430) sounds like a superb tractor these design flaws (or shortcomings) are highlighted. Sometimes the PT looks like a bargain and other times it looks like, well, the opposite.

Just a few of the design flaws that have come up recently:
-gas tank mounted to hood (can't access engine bay without tipping the tank and risking a spill...onto a hot engine)
-gas tank located next to the muffler (of all things!)
-no brakes
-headlights mounted so that they are behind anything you might be carrying
-no way to add weight for better traction and/or stability
-air cooled engines in a machine with a $9500 base price (comparable CUTS offer better engines)

None of the above things are incredibly difficult to fix. The gas tank issue I think has been fixed with the latest revision. But then that fix may have come about just because a different engine is in there now. From what I've read in this forum the PT people are notoriously stubborn when it come to learning from their customers and that's a pity. I'm just glad I have another year before I have to make a decision on what will replace my feeble JD. Unfortunately, there aren't many options that compare well with the entry level PTs even with all of their flaws. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Rip]

Most of the things you mentioned are valid points. Some are pretty minor such as headlights which are easily corrected. Some have been improved in current models such as gas tank on 425. Some are not correct such as adding weight for stability: PT tractors have inherently low center of gravity and are significantly more stable than any CUT plus there are actually several fairly easy ways to add more weight if desired.

Some such as brakes are more significant short comings and not easily dealt with at the owner level. However, many folks here have not found this to be a serious problem. Most folks do not deal with 20 to 30 deg slopes and/or have not had a engine or hydraulic failure while on such a slope.

PT actually does take customer input more to heart than might be presumed. While they seldom directly acknowledge this input, quite often positive changes are made not too long after specific issues are brought to light here and directly to PT personel. This often occurs a lot quicker than with the major corporations.

Now if they were not so obsinate about hiding componant identity and offering real brakes on the smaller models there would be fewer real issues to complain about. But then again, nothing in life is perfect.

Six months to a year from now the PTs will be better than today and will still be more stable than any CUT by design. The maneuverability of the articulated design must be experienced to be appreciated.

Good Luck