Branson 2505H Problem (Need Help)

[mreyna16]

If it is a 3 wire solenoid it likely has a start and a run winding.
One wire should get power when the key is turned to crank,
when the key is returned to the run position the other lead should get power.
I would expect the run coil to be controlled by the stop relay,
when the relay is energized by the tractor running it should de-energize with the key off
removing power to the solenoid.
Check all your fuses.

I'll check them out tomorrow or so... Right now about to start grilling... Happy 4th of July and thanks for your help, I'll post results later

 

[Midniteoyl]

Sorry for the late reply... Was finally able to get the relays (my local parts store didn't have the amps/volts needed)

So I swapped all of them just in case to no avail... What else could it be? It has a kill switch, u think it's that? I'm gonna replace it to a bigger amps one but thats a different story... Will post if the switch has any effect

I'm sorry. I meant swap the two with each other and see if the trouble follows the swap.

 

[mreyna16]

I'm sorry. I meant swap the two with each other and see if the trouble follows the swap.

I swapped all of them entirely... There's 3 relays but didn't work

Today I checked the fuses with the pin light and all of them work, the light on the pin light turns on with the key set to "on" in all the fuses. U think it's the solenoid?

I also tried to check the wires that were visible on the bottom of the tractor to see if I could see a broken wire but didn't see anything. Most of the wires are behind the steering wheel cover and and under the cluster (if it's called that) and I don't have the right size ratchet to remove the steering wheel (you have to remove the steering wheel to remove the cluster)

So again, u think it's the solenoid itself?

 

[K5lwq]

Could be the solenoid. Check the power with your pin light at the connector. After you turn Key to start position. You should have power on one wire in the start position and power on another wire in run position. This does not explain the starter turning in run position. There has to be something else.

Another thing to check. Unplug the small starter wire and see if you have power there with key in run position. You should not. If you do, you have to figure out why. It should only have power when key is in start position.

I am thinking somehow some wires are crossed.

 

[mreyna16]

Could be the solenoid. Check the power with your pin light at the connector. After you turn Key to start position. You should have power on one wire in the start position and power on another wire in run position. This does not explain the starter turning in run position. There has to be something else.

Another thing to check. Unplug the small starter wire and see if you have power there with key in run position. You should not. If you do, you have to figure out why. It should only have power when key is in start position.

I am thinking somehow some wires are crossed.

I was looking through the wiring on the service manual, the solenoid has a ground wire, a "hold" and a "pull" wire. What does the hold and pull wire do? Excuse my ignorance

EDIT: The hold wire goes to the engine stop relay and the pull goes to a fuse

EDIT 2: I didn't check those fuses, only the fuse box ones... This other fuse are some long fuses that I had never seen before... Don't know how to check those... They're in colored rectangular little boxes and a clear cap... If u don't know what I'm talking about I'll post pics tomorrow

 

[mreyna16]

If it is a 3 wire solenoid it likely has a start and a run winding.
One wire should get power when the key is turned to crank,
when the key is returned to the run position the other lead should get power.
I would expect the run coil to be controlled by the stop relay,
when the relay is energized by the tractor running it should de-energize with the key off
removing power to the solenoid.
Check all your fuses.

Which fuses are those long rectangular box ones? They're right next to the battery, they're not in the fuse box

 

[K5lwq]

I was looking through the wiring on the service manual, the solenoid has a ground wire, a "hold" and a "pull" wire. What does the hold and pull wire do? Excuse my ignorance

EDIT: The hold wire goes to the engine stop relay and the pull goes to a fuse

EDIT 2: I didn't check those fuses, only the fuse box ones... This other fuse are some long fuses that I had never seen before... Don't know how to check those... They're in colored rectangular little boxes and a clear cap... If u don't know what I'm talking about I'll post pics tomorrow

The pull wire is energized when you turn the key to the start position. This tells the solenoid to suck the plunger in. Then when you release the key to the run position the hold wire gets power to hold the plunger sucked in. I suspect the pull wire is getting power when it is supposed to but the hold wire is not getting power.

The fuses may be the main fuses before the switch. Although I am not certain of that. I have not studied the wiring diagram for your tractor.

 

[mreyna16]

The pull wire is energized when you turn the key to the start position. This tells the solenoid to suck the plunger in. Then when you release the key to the run position the hold wire gets power to hold the plunger sucked in. I suspect the pull wire is getting power when it is supposed to but the hold wire is not getting power.

The fuses may be the main fuses before the switch. Although I am not certain of that. I have not studied the wiring diagram for your tractor.

I checked the wires with a pin light today and you were right... The pull wire isn't getting current and it might be those fuses that I was telling you about... I'll post pics of two different fuses, they both look like the wire isn't broken but one fuse does show more signs of use (I guess)... After looking at the pictures, you think I need new fuses?

Going back to the solenoid wires, there are 2 wires on top and one in the bottom in between both (kind of like a household wall outlet with ground). The pull wire seemed to be in line with the wiring diagram (pill also post a screenshot) but what is weird to me is that the pull wire is white, the hold wire is black and the ground wire is blue and red striped. Thing that's odd to me is usually ground is black. Does that seem normal or am I seeing it wrong? Either way, I checked both the black (hold) and the blue and red striped wire (ground) while turning the key to the off position and none of them had a connection. Maybe it's kinda extra info but I'm trying to give a good explanation as to how I came to the conclusion that you were right

EDIT: just realized I didn't post pics

 

[K5lwq]

First let me encourage you that tracing wiring issues is very difficult some times so hang in there.

The pull wire will route through a 30 amp slow blow fuse. It comes from the starter relay. The hold wire comes from the stop relay. Unfortunately, the wiring diagram is not giving us the wire color which would be very helpful.

So if I understand you correctly, your starter engages when the key is turned to the first position which is the run position. I think we need to address this problem first. Then see what needs to be done with the fuel solenoid.

On the starter you should have a big wire and a smaller wire. The big wire is the one coming from the battery and should be held on with a nut. The small wire should come from the starter relay and is usually a plug type connection. We need to focus on the small wire.

Unplug the small wire from the starter and use your pin light. Turn the key to the on position, the light should be off. Turn key to the start position and the light should turn on. Then back to on position light should go off. So you should only see power when the key is in the start position. This is the goal.

Can you post pictures of the starter with all the wires connected? Try to capture the harnesses around the starter in the picture as well. Is there a plug not being use that is close enough to reach the starter?

 

[mreyna16]

First let me encourage you that tracing wiring issues is very difficult some times so hang in there.

The pull wire will route through a 30 amp slow blow fuse. It comes from the starter relay. The hold wire comes from the stop relay. Unfortunately, the wiring diagram is not giving us the wire color which would be very helpful.

So if I understand you correctly, your starter engages when the key is turned to the first position which is the run position. I think we need to address this problem first. Then see what needs to be done with the fuel solenoid.

On the starter you should have a big wire and a smaller wire. The big wire is the one coming from the battery and should be held on with a nut. The small wire should come from the starter relay and is usually a plug type connection. We need to focus on the small wire.

Unplug the small wire from the starter and use your pin light. Turn the key to the on position, the light should be off. Turn key to the start position and the light should turn on. Then back to on position light should go off. So you should only see power when the key is in the start position. This is the goal.

Can you post pictures of the starter with all the wires connected? Try to capture the harnesses around the starter in the picture as well. Is there a plug not being use that is close enough to reach the starter?

I'll do that when I get home, what can you tell me about the fuses in the pictures? U think the wire on one of those is running thin? Or is that normal?