Branson 6530 hydraulic problem.

Steve6004 · Oct 21, 2022

I have a Branson 6530 with the BL30 loader. The hydraulic valves controlling the loader function leaked for years so I bit the bullet and ordered a Branson valve. $1600, ouch. I replaced the valve and the loader functions normally with no leaks. Now it gets weird.

with the tractor running it “feels” like the engine is bogging down. When I use any loader function, the engine sounds better and I gain about 50-100 rpm. When I stop moving the loader i lose the rpm’s again.

The Branson has an electric switch controlling the 3 pt lift. Click it up and the lift raises. Click it down and lift goes down. This up function has stopped working. UNLESS. I click the desired position AND operate the loader. If the loader is moving up or down then the lift will move up. The lift will lower from gravity pressure if clicked down.

I have my hay rake attached to a remote. Operating the remote up or down has no effect on the 3 pt lift. The remote functions normally. The hydraulic fluid level is good and I replaced the hydraulic filter.
I am stumped. it seems that hydraulic pressure Is blocked by the loader valves. All I did was replace a factory part with a factory part. The hoses are right. I thought I may have reversed the in/ out hoses but the out hose is too short to screw up.
before I go and put the leaking part back on the tractor I thought I would reach out for some help.

K5lwq · Oct 21, 2022

It sounds as if you have the power beyond and tank hoses reversed. Can you post a picture of the valve and connections?

I not sure I understand the RPM change but I would start with this and go from there.

K5lwq · Oct 21, 2022

Another question. Are your sure your new valve has power beyond port and the power beyond sleeve installed?

ptsg · Oct 22, 2022

I second what K5 said on both posts. Also, almost sounds like the new valve was setup for closed center, so it may need a plug inside on one of the ports to be removed depending on the style of valve.

Pictures definitely help in this case.

Also, great call on noticing the engine working harder. Most people won't pay attention to little details like that and that's how they destroy hydraulic pumps. Sometimes even by just leaving one of the remove valves locked in detent.

Tx Jim · Oct 22, 2022

I agree with both previous replies. Check return & PBY hose connection locations on FEL control valve

ericm979 · Oct 22, 2022

I'd think that a replacement valve specifically for that model Branson would be open center if the tractor is open center.

It sounds like you're dead heading all the time except when the loader valve is operated. When dead heading the hydraulic pump is pushing all the fluid through the relief valve. That's why the rpm rises when you operate the loader. Depending on the valve and your hearing you might be able to hear the squeal from the relief valve.

Steve6004 · Oct 22, 2022

I appreciate all the feedback. I adjusted the pressure. I gave it 2 turns to lower the pressure and I could hear the load come off the engine. The 3 point hitch is working correctly again. I assumed the factory replacement would be set to specs. My problem is I have limited knowledge of hydraulics. I know the basics. Clean fluid, clean filters, fix leaks. I don’t have manuals for the tractor. Heck, it’s not even my tractor. My 80 year old dad likes to buy roadside equipment and I get sucked into “take a look at this for me”. Can anyone suggest a basic hydraulic book or website? I want to learn more.

Harry in Ky · Oct 22, 2022

Adjusted pressure on what? No offense, but your statement makes no sense to me. With a standard open center system there is (or should be) little or no pressure anywhere until a function is activated. Oil flow is then diverted and pressure builds until demand is met. With all valves in neutral, and no demand called for, the relief valve(s) would not be in play, so what did you adjust that made a difference?

K5lwq · Oct 22, 2022

I agree with Harry. Is there a possibility that a remote valve in not centered? Still sounds like the pump is dead heading.

LD1 · Oct 23, 2022

Definitly something more going on. Relief adjustment should only make a difference when a hydraulic function is being used. It should have NO effect on an open center system when in idle.

Tx Jim · Oct 23, 2022

Steve
Have you checked & rechecked the pressure(supply), return & PBY hose connections on your newly installed control valve??? I'll bet some hoses are attached to control valve at incorrect locations.

Steve6004 · Oct 23, 2022

I appreciate the help. I also apologize for my lack of knowledge with hydraulics. I know how painful it is to watch/listen to people try to do things when they obviously are in over their head.
The thing I adjusted is on the FEL valve itself. A very tall nut, a set nut and a threaded stud with an Allen key. I turned it 2 turns ccw and it corrected the earlier problem.
Like a lot of troubleshooting, fixing one problem just gets you to the next. Now everything works but the bucket tilt function is screwy. A little history. Tractor worked before replacing valve, but it leaked in a few spots Including the valve. I had one of the lift cylinders rebuilt and both of the tilt cylinders Rebuilt. Replaced the valve as earlier discussed. I tried to move some hay yesterday but couldn’t. New problem.
The up/down function seems to work correctly. The tilt function is screwy. With the tractor running and not running the FEL will stay where I set it. I can park it overnight and it’s right where I left it. I’ve checked for leaks everywhere. None. When I attempted to lift a bale the tilt couldn’t hold the weight. tilt also couldn’t roll up with the weight of the bale. Tilt works fine without a load on it.
I have the hay spear installed. I lifted the spear and I hung from it. I’m 200 lbs and I couldn’t move it. Both tilt cylinders rebuilt in last 90 days Due to visible leaks.
when I installed the new valve I had to move fittings and caps from old one to the new one. Everything seemed correct.
Getting this tractor to someone willing to work on it is a pain in the butt. Dealers are few in my area. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

K5lwq · Oct 23, 2022

Steve, you have some guys helping you that will be hard to find at a local shop. You stated you wanted to learn hydraulics and this is you chance. The key will be performing the tasks asked of you and report back the results.

I would limit use of the tractor while we figure things out or more problems could pop up. Adjusting the relief without a pressure gauge is not a good idea. At some point it will need to be reset to the proper pressure and a gauge will be needed.

If you could post a picture of the current valve and the hoses that connect to the valve, that would help. Pictures of any markings on the valve will help as well. We need to confirm routing and proper set up first.

Harry in Ky · Oct 23, 2022

You don't need a dealer, you need someone who knows tractors. In too many cases these days, dealer mechanics don't know much more than you do about your tractor. Owning a handful of tools doesn't make one a mechanic.

Your tractor worked properly before you swapped valves? You changed it mainly because of leaks? Does the valve have six lines or seven?

ericm979 · Oct 23, 2022

Steve6004 said:
The thing I adjusted is on the FEL valve itself. A very tall nut, a set nut and a threaded stud with an Allen key. I turned it 2 turns ccw and it corrected the earlier problem.

That's the relief valve. You turned the pressure down. Since you're dead heading all the time, the lower relief pressure means the pump is doing less work.

While that's slightly better, it did not correct the actual problem. It's still plumbed wrong and that is likely causing your other issues with the loader. I agree with the suggestion to not use it until this is fixed. If it were mine that would be more than a suggestion.

It's likely that you have connected the tank hose to the PB port on the valve, and the PB port to the tank. Being able to operate the 3pt only when operating the loader valve would indicate that as the valve sends flow out the tank port when it's operated. If you lift anything significant with the 3pt with it plumbed like this there is a good chance that your new loader valve will be damaged. The tank port is not made to handle much pressure.

Hydraulic valves have cast in markings next to each port. Can you read the ones for the ports that do not go to the loader? Or better, get pics and post them? Then we can figure out which hose should be attached to which port.

Steve6004 · Oct 23, 2022

Good evening. I parked the tractor as suggested. I was baling hay all weekend so I couldn’t reply earlier. I’m using my other tractors, but the Branson is my hay mover. The tractor has six lines. I’m attaching 2 photos. My finger is pointing to the only difference between the old valve and the new valve. On the old valve this port had a plug. I bought a plug to plug off the port I’m pointing to. I’m not sure of the difference. I greatly appreciate your help and advice.

K5lwq · Oct 23, 2022

The one you are pointing to looks like a Power Beyond sleeve. Can you remove the sleeve and use the plug that was in your old valve for that port?

I think this is the source of the dead heading. With the sleeve installed it is redirecting the flow through fluid from tank to this port and the sleeve is capped stopping flow. When you use the valve, fluid now can flow through the work ports back to the tank port.

Somewhere else there must be priority valve that feeds the rest of the tractor and the loader valve would only have a power port and a tank port.

Steve6004 · Oct 23, 2022

I can do that. I’ll plug it with the old plug tomorrow. I’ll report the results.

Harry in Ky · Oct 23, 2022

I think you need to revisit the two lines to and from the loader valve, where they come from and where they go. I agree that your finger is showing what is most likely a power beyond sleeve.

Just my humble opinion here, but if I were you I would endeavor to keep it and put your current return hose onto it. Then add a third line for a case return. You mentioned the original valve was plagued with leaks? Lack of that third line will eventually cause this valve to have similar problems sooner or later. That's why I asked if the valve had six or seven lines. I suspected it was six.

K5lwq · Oct 23, 2022

Harry, If you look at his pictures you can see the lines marked on the tractor side. It only has power and tank lines. The 6530 had two different versions for the hydraulic system. It could be that one of them needed power beyond on the loader valve but his does not. Once the sleeve is removed then fluid should be able to flow to the tank port. The loader will be the last valve in this circuit.

Steve, Once this is corrected you will need to adjust the relief valve to get the loader capacity back to where it belongs. You need to get a pressure gauge to do this correctly. Pressure should be somewhere close to 2400psi. Something like this will work.