Buying Advice Branson Problem - Need Advice

[JonMark]

Not trying to stir waves about Branson, because I love mine, however I have run into a situation that I need some advice from other owners on. I purchased the 4520 on 9-10-03 and have put a total of 34 hours on the tractor.

The problem is that I loaned my tractor to my friend to use over a weekend that I was out of town. He used the tractor for a total of 6 hours roughly. When I picked the tractor up from him I noticed that the clutch was very weak, and upon trying to drag my box blade found that the clutch was all but gone. I immediatley loaded the tractor up and returned to the dealer to inspect. Upon dropping off my tractor at the dealer we performed an inspection of the tractor and found that the left front wheel was bowed out. We found that the bolts that went to the left front gear case had worked their way out, causing the axel to bind. We inspected the right side and found that the bolts were also loose, but not in as bad of shape. The dealer immediatley called the manufacturer who advised him of a service bulletin about this issue, "Bolts not torqued to spec from factory on a group of Bransons."

Since I was using the tractor with the 4x4 engaged, would the axel binding cause extreeme stress on the clutch?

The reason I ask is that the friend I loaned my tractor to has experience with driving them and upon questioning him, he ensured that he knew how to work the clutch.

Right now the dealer is concentrating on fixing the axel and housing on the tractor before they look at the clutch. They said that the clutch would probably not be covered under warranty and that it would be very costly!

Any thoughts? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Jon Mark
TX

 

[Taylortractornut]

Most definetly t will strain the clutch. If the clutch is engaged and rear is turning and the nthe front wheel drive is engaged and its binding up it will wear o nthe clutch. I think the manufacturer ought o cover it if its still under warranty. Its also a flaw that should have that group recalled. i had a new NewHolland hoe do that once, something broke in the fron end and it slipped the transmission wore the transmision and front drive line.
If they dont fix it you need lawyer, I hate the L word but sometimes its needed.

 

[JonMark]

Thanks for replying promplty. I thought that might be the case, they dismissed this idea. I sure feel like my dealer is trying to bend me over on this one. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Not ready for it, but I am feeling it. Jon Mark

 

[Golfgar4]

Bummer Jon! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Sorry to hear about your problems.

You say that your friend has experience driving tractors. Who says so, you or him? I mean, do you know for a fact that he has this experience, or do you just take his word for it?

Just how good of a friend is this fellow? If he's a REALLY good friend, then you have to decide if you want to chance losing the friendship if you accuse him of abusing your machine.

Another question you should be trying to answer is if the damage might have occurred even if you were operating the tractor. There was a service bulletin about the potential problem that you didn't even know about. Could you expect your friend to know about it? Is it possible that whoever was operating it might not have noticed what was going on before it was too late?

If the fellow is a good friend, I guess I don't think I'd jeopardize the friendship by raising a stink about it. After all, you did let him use the tractor without any special instructions, right? Did you tell him that he'd be responsible for any damage that might be incurred while he was using it? Maybe if you're a good guy about the whole thing, he might even feel bad enough about it to offer to help cover the cost of the repairs.

I guess if nothing else, you've probably learned that it doesn't pay to loan your machine out to anyone, even a good friend. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Hard lesson, huh? Hope everything works out for you! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[JonMark]

Golfgar4,

Thanks for your reply, however can you answer the part about whether or not it would put unnecessary strain on the clutch? And your right, if you were driving it, would it have done the same thing, who knows. And YES, lesson learned!!Jon Mark

 

[BillyP]

Could it put unnecessary strain on the clutch? Yes, it could. Could it wear a 'new' clutch out in that length of time is the hard question.

It could have been a defective clutch from the get go and the axle problem, your friend or both made it worse. There's really no way of telling for sure.

I would certainly try my best to have it fixed under warranty. If your dealer doesn't go for it, then talk directly to the company.

Good luck.

 

[Golfgar4]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( can you answer the part about whether or not it would put unnecessary strain on the clutch? )</font>

Jon,

No, I'm sorry, but I can't answer that question as I'm not mechanically inclined. The response that Taylor made makes sense to me, but hopefully one of the qualified mechanical types that frequent TBN will offer some input.

Hope it works out for you.

 

[Chipperman]

JonMark
Sorry to hear about your tractor problem. First off I want to state I AM NOT a mechanic. But I will put in my 2 cents. Could the front end problem be related to the clutch problem? Possibly but, I highly doubt it. Sorry I know that is not what you want to here. It is possible to know how to operate the clutch but be using the tractor in the wrong gears. I have seen this prematurely wear out clutches. Could something else have caused this? Yes and I hope you can find the exact cause. Good luck.
Chipperman /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
PS: Is Dave’s Tractor out their? Maybe he can shed some light on it.

 

[phirman]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I have a Branson 3510 with 47 hrs on it. After reading your post I immediatly went out to check on mine and all is well. I am just wondering what sort of work your neighbor was doing with your tractor and what gear/range he was using. It just seems odd that he wouldn't notice the clutch slipping. You didn't say whether he
told you about the clutch problem or you found it yourself. If the bolts gradually loosened up over time there should have been some sign of fluid leaking. I don't know about your particular dealer but I think "Branson" would probably be responsive to a letter about your problem. I hope you get everything worked out.
Good luck,
Ken.

 

[JonMark]

Phirman, BillyP & Chipperman,

Thanks for responses. To answer a few more questions, the tractor was in 4x4 in second gear, second speed. He was dragging the box blade in a nonagressive position over loose soil. He also pushed a small pile of brush around with the front end loader.

I will try to get the Original Service bulletin on the problem today and post it as a reply possibly tonight or tommorrow.

Does anyone know how much this clutch will cost. The dealer wont even give me a ball park yet. He said that the tractor will have to be split in half to replace clutch. Ouch!!

Is this good for a new tractor?

Jon Mark

 

[Woodbeef]

Hmmmm...interesting problem. Could they be related.........yes and no. Possibly he could have been riding the clutch to get the tractor to move. But if the clutch was not engaged the whole time........then I'd wonder about something else than the disc being fried. Did the tractor stink of burnt clutch disc? If he smoked it there should be evidence in the bottom of the bellhousing.

 

[DennisFolsom]

JonMark -

Part of this story reminds me of an embarassing situation I was in many years ago. While in high school, I was asked to drive the two daughters of our local Baptist minister, and some of their friends, to their band practice in the minister's car. The minister was out of town. The trip went fine, but on the way back, after letting the others off, I let one of the girls drive. I shouldn't have done it, but that went fine as well - no mishaps. A day or two later, when I visited my uncle (next door to the minister), the minister asked me some very embarassing questions. He was trying to figure out who had spun ruts in his lawn and peeled the retreads off his snow tires! It seems the young ladies had done some joy riding on their own after I left.

My point in telling this tale here is that someone else, kids likely, may have had access to your tractor during the time that your friend borrowed it, and they may have done the damage.

With regard to "splitting" a tractor in two to replace the clutch, that's standard procedure on a lot of tractor models. The way they are constructed, that's how they have to come apart. It's labor intensive, and best done by someone who has the right tools and has a clue what they are doing. Otherwise, it's no big deal.

Good luck on your repairs.

 

[DavesTractor]

We've had one 4520 that the bolts came loose on. We fixed it immediately under warranty. We check all new tractors and all tractors coming back in for service, but haven't found anymore that were loose, and we've seen about 80 new Bransons go through our doors so far this year.

Our guy that had his come loose used his forks to move heavy Walnut burls. He had the hydraulic relief adjusted too high on the loader, we set that back to factory specs for him and told him to not mess with it. I suspect lifting 3000 lb burls contributed to the problem. He denies that he lifted so much, but he denies it with a proud smile on his face. He has over 100 hours on the tractor and no clutch problems. I would doubt a connection to the clutch, yet that issue must be looked at carefully. These tractors use a really heavy duty LUK (Germany) clutch and have been fairly bullet proof, so having the clutch wear out so early isn't normal either. Hopefully the dealer will be in contact with the national service adviser to work this out. Branson is very fair and wants to treat the dealer and customer right.

 

[dieselsmoke1]

Sorry to hear of your problem JonMark. To some extent, it could have been about any of us.

Noticed in your post the friend was pulling a box blade in <font color="red"> the second range in second gear </font> .

That's probably a 3 - 4 mph task. What's the max speed for your tractor in this gear?

There's no big trick to frying a clutch in 15 minutes if the operator is adequately clueless. Not implying this is the case, but certainly a possibility.

Irregardless, I hope Branson will realize the value of satifying a customer of a new tractor with an obvious mfg. defect, and step up to the plate.

Most any of us that are in manufacturing will admit sometimes we fix things that cannot be the company's responsibility. It's done in the name of customer service. Call it CDB.

 

[Taylortractornut]

The thing about the clutch is that f the front end is restricted and it doesnt have its own overload clutch which isnt very common, and the front end binding will load down the the clutch. Because the flywheel is turning at so many rpms and if the front and rear are connected by the transfer it will usually cause the clutch to slip then burn out if its loaded to an extreme. I had a customer with a big manual shift Ford on his farm do this. I think he had to had his flywheel resurfaced as well. I think what caused his was the bearing that holds the pinion gear tried to sieze and over loaded the clutch. Its confusing and hard for me to explain on here I wished had a model of the gear train to show yall.

 

[dancce]

At 34 hours on the meter, I doubt that the clutch is worn out--but anything is possible. I sell Centurys from American Jawa, and would not hesitate to tell a customer, if a similar situation came to us, that it would be covered under warranty--because i know they would.
I might add that we recently had a customer bring in his 3045 for it's first service (oil & filters) and noticed that the clutch pedal just didn't feel right--it was somewhat stiff. It turned out that the linkage where it goes through the bellhousing was binding up. We did not have to split the tractor to fix it. We freed it up by first applying a good (not WD40) grade of lubricant to the shaft inside and out--then drilling a hole in the bellhousing and adding a grease fitting. This may not be your problem--but it could be worth checking. Compare how the clutch pedal feels on yours, to another tractor on his lot.
Hope this helps.

Dancce

I just remembered that this same tractor had loose bolts on the front axle--a couple were missing also--my recollection is that the bolts were too short from the factory. We replaced all of them.
In defense of these tractors, I must say that , we have quite a few out --some are used commercially--and as a general rule they are bullet-proof.

 

[JonMark]

Daves Tractors,

Thanks for the response. Can you post the service bulletin about the bolts not bieng torqued to spec. I can't get ahold of one.

In your response you say that you found one tractor with loose bolts. How loose were they?

On my tractor, there were the three bottom bolts that were completely out, the others were over half way unthreaded and I never lifted anything heavier than a full bucket of dirt with the FEL.

Since you are another 4520 owner, and a dealer, I will bend your ear with a few questions.

Are there anyother service bulletins out there that are of importance?

Also, what is the average life of a clutch on the Branson?

What is the 4320?


Thanks,
Jon Mark

 

[EFC]

Jon, Talk with Branson before you do anything else. Be nice and tell them "you need their help". Hard to say no to someone asking so nicely. Find out what your options are (liabilities might change when you actually find the problem). When they split the tractor you will know volumes, right now all you can do is speculate. Splitting a tractor is an uneventful sometimes laborious task but if done by competent mechanics it will not shorten the life of your tractor in any way. Is it normal for a clutch to go out this soon...Hell no. Does it happen...sure. Like everything build enough of any product and you build it right at least once and wrong at least once. Sounds more like a factory flaw to me, if the neighbor had abused it enough to kill it like all dead things you would smell it.

 

[JonMark]

EFC,

Great advice! I am going to wait to see the out come before I contact anyone. I just got word from the dealer that Branson has given them the OK to waranty everything based on the dealers discresion and findings. Hope all goes OK on dealers side. Jon Mark

 

[JonMark]

Dieselsmoke1,

Thanks for repy, to answer your question adout max speed in the range and gear I was in, "I have no idea." Maybe DavesTractor can help us out on this one.
Now can you answer one question for me? What is CDB? and do I need some? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif JonMark