Bringing the draft back ???

fivestring · Apr 21, 2004

My main take on that is what another waste of my tax dollars.

A decision was made based on information a person had on hand AT THAT TIME.

Now, it appears that the information could have been better.

That happens everyday in every manager's office. Decisions are made based on the information they have IN HAND AT THAT TIME.
So, who's fault is it?
The one who made the decision based on the info AT HAND AT THAT TIME or the one's that provided the information or the ones that hindered the correct amount of information that could have been gathered?

Monday morning quarterbacks always have better information than the person that makes the original decision.

Could anyone here have made a better decision based on the information AT HAND AT THAT TIME?

I am not 100% behind any President in all of his decisions.
But, I can not place blame on him for the inadequate information. One needs to go back to the early to mid 1990's to find the start of the problem.

5030 · Apr 21, 2004

Mike:

Boy am I glad I read the thread. From the posted line, I thought this was about Draft Horses. At that point, my wife would have taken over the computer. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think I'll remian politically correct and not voice my opinion. No point in making the water even more muddy. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chuck52 · Apr 21, 2004

Memories. I kept my educational deferment until it went away, and then I drew a low number in the lottery. I think it was less than 50. Is there a way to look up that number after all these years? I was sure I was going, because I had already passed the physical, but I was never called. My older brother, having flunked out of every college my mother could get him into, had joined the Navy right ahead of the draft. He was supposed to get electronics training, according to his recruiter, but he shot in the top 10% of his bootcamp group and ended up as forward gunner on a river patrol boat. He wrote home that he wasn't having much fun and I should not go out of my way to join him there. Did local draft boards have quotas? I remember hearing that they did, and that they could count volunteers as part of that. Or maybe they tried to spread the pain and avoided drafting more than one from a family. I don't know. I would have gone had I been drafted. It wouldn't have occured to me not to, though I didn't blame anyone who ran to Canada.

I still haven't decided how I feel about a draft, and since I have two sons it would be personal to me. However, my older boy finished four years in the Navy in the fall of 2002, so unless things get much worse he's probably out of it. My younger boy might not pass the physical, unless they're looking for guys who can slide through the eye of a needle. He got skinny genes from somewhere. On the other hand, if the idea is to serve the country, he does that by volunteering in various ways. He's helping with the Special Olympics, this past weekend and next (I think). He spends most Sundays reading to Spanish speaking kids at a church, though he is totally non-religious. He's just about fluent in Spanish and that was the connection, somehow. He belongs to an environmental club at college and helps with trail and stream clean-ups with them. They also helped build a trail at a local park. So....maybe we don't need a draft.

Chuck

OkeeDon · Apr 21, 2004

I think if the President announced today that he needed volunteers so he could send 200,000 troops to Afghanistan, where they would form a human chain and walk every inch of that country and Northern Pakistan until they rooted out Al Queda, he would have a million volunteers by tomorrow. I believe they would willingly keep walking until they covered every inch of the world where Al Queda could hide. And, I believe that the American people would sacrifice in order to pay the costs. We owe a debt to those who died in the 9/11 attacks.

I also believe that those people who still support our invasion of Iraq is because they still believe the stories the administration spun before the invasion, that Iraq was somehow connected to 9/11, was a serious and mortal threat to the United States, and that Iraqi oil money could pay the bill.

It took decades for the public to understand that the supposed Gulf of Tonkin attacks were a fabrication, although there were those at the time (myself included) who proclaimed to anyone who would listen, "It never happened!" It may take that long for the public to fully understand what happened with the Iraq strike.

AndyM · Apr 21, 2004

I think I'll remian politically correct and not voice my opinion. 

Who are you, and what have you done with Daryl??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though, I've stayed out of this until now, but now I can't keep my mouth shut any longer, because I just don't understand...

(I'm going to drift almost to the political line that we can't cross, but not quite /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I'm trying hard to keep this unpolitical-- Mike, I'm trying to keep it politically neutral, but you can delete it if you need to)

Why Iraq?

They had a terrible dictatorship, and the people of that country faced oppressive conditions because of their leader. There are any number of countries throughout the world that also have the same problem. Why Iraq? There are any number of countries in Africa, or North Korea, or elsewhere in the Middle East, where a brutal government oppresses its people, yet the people of these nations have done nothing wrong to deserve this treatment. If we feel the need to rescue one nation's people and rebuild their schools and hospitals, why haven't we finished the rest of these dictatorships off and helped to build democracies in their nations?

Why only Iraq?

I cringe every time I hear about the need to build new schools in Iraq, and the need to give these children the education they deserve. What about the education the American children deserve? Many members of my family (including my wife, who hasn't found a permanent job five years after graduating), and many of my friends, are school teachers. The headlines each day are so discouraging. The school districts are each millions of dollars in debt. They blame the state, the state blames the federal government, but no one really tries to fix the problems.
I don't understand where the priorities are. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Cleveland schools announced the layoff of 618 teachers today. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Akron already announced around 170 layoffs. Closer to me, Warren city schools are laying off 50 teachers. Smaller districts in this area have eliminated art and music classes and even the school cafeteria has closed in some districts to save money! (bring your brown bag only)

I've seen cases where two grades have been combined into the same classroom and bussing eliminated in rural districts. Is this 1940 again??? (You know, "I walked five miles to school, uphill both ways, in three feet of snow, carrying my brother and sister...")

Come on people, this is 2004! Many of the people here who personally know me know what my political leanings are (leaning toward the right hand side of the page), but enough is enough. Congress and the president need to stop their partisan squabbling about how to rebuild someone else's government and focus a little bit on the future of this country. If the children aren't getting the proper education, and the problems here aren't focused on, then we are the ones who will eventually end up as the third world country... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Man, I'm long winded today! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Once again, I apologize for all of that, but I just needed to get it off my chest, and like I said in a previous post, I would rather say it to you guys here then somewhere else! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

slowrev · Apr 21, 2004

What Andy said /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Boondox · Apr 21, 2004

( I think I'll remian politically correct and not voice my opinion. No point in making the water even more muddy. )

How appropriate that this whole thread was started by a new member named "Muddy!" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Pete

Bob_Skurka · Apr 21, 2004

What I know is that I just came back from lunch where I had my last meal with a long term friend who will be reporting for duty on Monday and is on her way to Iraq. She is going willingly, despite the fact that she is leaving her loved ones behind. She is leaving her family, her friends and her co-workers. And she is doing it because she believes that America is the land of opportunity, the great melting pot, and the home of the free where not only do we have the right to succeed, but also to the right to fail. We are the most charitable nation on earth, and she is part of that and is proving it by giving up 12 to 18 months of her life, and possibly a lot more. We have a lot of things to fix here in this country, but as someone who has traveled to many parts of the world, the problems with our schools or our health system are NOTHING compared to other nations. We are the greatest nation on the earth because we are FREE to succeed, to speak, to vote, and yes even to FAIL. And when your life is touched by someone who is giving up theirs to go fight for the IDEAL, then maybe you will understand why I am greatful to live here and why, if my child was drafted today, I would not try to get her out of the service.

riptides · Apr 21, 2004

( I also believe that those people who still support our invasion of Iraq is because they still believe the stories the administration spun before the invasion, that Iraq was somehow connected to 9/11, )

WHAT? Where did that come from? Iraq connected to 9/11, what administration official said that? Where did you get that from?

-Mike Z.

Bob_Skurka · Apr 21, 2004

I thought the invasion was to a) eliminate WMD, b) eliminate a dictator. Side benefits might include a new democracy, stability in the region and oil.

There was no clear connection to 9/11 from what I recall.