Brother in Laws TC 30 ready to crack in half.

[Ryan03]

Just because your BIL "always" torques bolts to spec (with lubrication on the threads) doesn't mean that the dealer who initially assembled the tractor did. Not trying to start an argument, just pointing out what might have happened. BTW, I have over 35 years experience as a design engineer and have spent considerable time doing failure analysis on failed equipment. You would be surprised how many times a failure has been caused by what we call like to call "cockpit error" and/or users making modifications to equipment that "screwed" up the initial engineered product and in fact made it prone to other failure modes.

Just my experiences.

PS I break plenty of my own stuff.

Andy

I can appreciate your imput, however, a faulty casting or fastener cannot be ruled out at this point, nor can improper dealer prep. Both my wife and father in law are PE. licened civil engineers, FIL. with a masters degree in civil engineering, and the wife with a bachelors, both specializing in structures. The father in law has 40+ years exp. and my wife has 12. Both are experienced in design and failure assesment. I myself am a professional fleet mechanic with 12 years work experience and an Ase certified master medium and heavy truck tech, and the brother in law is a professional heavy equipment operator with around 18 years exp. That is 52 years of combined engineering experience, and 30 years of combined maintence and operation experience, combined, that is 82 years of experience relevant to this situation. All four of us have not had a round table type discussion on this, however we all live in close proximity to one another , and all have personaly seen the damage to the tractor. The general concensus is that it could have been any of the above mentioned occurences that caused the failure of the engine block and bell housing, as well as a few others that we have not discussed. We feel that at this point making a decision as to what caused this is premature to say the least, as the tractor has not been disassembled as of this writing. Also, the tractor is comepletely stock, just as New Holland designed it. I will update this post and keep everyone up to speed on any developments as they happen

 

[Ford850]

I'm curious, what's the recommended ballast weight for a TC30? Not the maximum lift capacity, but what weight does NH recommend to use on the 3ph when using the FEL?

 

[art]

No it looks like somebody mis-torqued the bolts.

BTW, at my dealer who is a fairly large New Holland / Kubota dealer in wandering around the service area, and talking to the General Manager and Service Manager, it is the lighter weight Kubotas that break far more often than the New Hollands.

I think that many of these tractors of all colors that break, it is an incorrect or incorrect mounted loader/backhoe that causes the problem.

Incorrect bracing/reinforcement done by an amateur can also cause more problems than it solves.

Andy

We see a lot of tractors and Kubota's the most over the CNH tractors and Cadets. I haven't seen the smaller Kubota's breaking, this is a problem with the CNH line.

 

[davitk]

Uh-oh, the gloves are off. Anybody wanna get a pool started as to how long this thread lives?

 

[Ryan03]

I'm curious, what's the recommended ballast weight for a TC30? Not the maximum lift capacity, but what weight does NH recommend to use on the 3ph when using the FEL?

Hmmm, that is a good question. In theory, if one were to wedge the edge of the bucket under an immovable object, attempt to curl up until the hydraulics bypassed, and then began raising and lowering the 3pt hitch, or even bouncing it, I could easily see where 1200 lbs could breake something, where you may be able to get away with doing it with say 500lbs, even though both loads would be well within the 3pt hitch capacity. This could also creat a huge amount of torque between the front and rear of the machine if the load on the bucket was on one corner or the other, such as trying to pop out a culvert or tree stump. I would hope the BIL would know better than to do this, but since I do not babysit him when he runs his tractor, I cannot say for sure. We have 12 New Holland mowing tractors at work ranging in size from the smallest TC40 {3} second smallest TT55 high stability {2} TN70A {4} 6640 {2} and finaly a 7740 slope mower {okay, the 6640s and 7740 are still called Fords} All of these tractors are equipped with Alamo flail mowers ranging from single 3pt. to double batwing w/ 3pt. Many of our operators are greenhornes and can be very abusive on the machines, especialy the freeway crew which mows hillsides, medians, and ditches. They usualy mow fast over large washouts and ruts, sink the tractors over the floorboards in mud, and occasionaly turn one over. The New Hollands have held up well all in all considering the abuse they see day in and out. I have seen more than a few centers ripped out of front wheels, snapped front wheel studs, broken spindles, 3pt arms torn in half etc. I have never seen these guys break one in half other than when one pulled out in front of a 1 ton Dodge going 30 or 40 {see TN 70 vs Ram 3500 4x4 in the safty section}. That Being said, The old John Deer 301s that the New Hollands replaced held up well to, very comparable durability wise with the New Holland. All in all, an abusive operator can damage even the best designed machine, and even the best designed machine can fall victim to the mass production process from time to time and fail even with a skilled operator and proper maintenence, regardless of make and model. I am still waiting to hear any new news from the BIL.

 

[stevem5215]

I noticed tonight in my Ford 1900 owners manual they specifically mention about the counter balance weight limits. They limit it based on the tire specs but there might be more to it. And the upper weight limit was yep, 900lbs. So like someone else said. That weight plus other loaded front loader weight might stress the frame enough to cause an issue. It's like anything else when you push it to the limits even though it's not out of spec it might be close enough for one machine to work fine but another will fail.

Steve

 

[cbumdumb]

I worked for many years at a New Holland dealership that sold Kubota's at one of our sister branches. I have seen both break usually from improper install ,bolts to long , paint in blind holes and a young mechanic in a hurry with out a torque wrench stalling out his impact using the bolt as a tap, to much lube in the blind hole causeing minute stress cracks.

Wish your brother in law luck

 

[RobJ]

BTW, I have over 35 years experience as a design engineer and have spent considerable time doing failure analysis on failed equipment. You would be surprised how many times a failure has been caused by what we call like to call "cockpit error" and/or users making modifications to equipment that "screwed" up the initial engineered product and in fact made it prone to other failure modes.

Hmmmm, in other words...you broke it!!

 

[RobJ]

I can appreciate your imput, however, a faulty casting or fastener cannot be ruled out at this point, nor can improper dealer prep. Both my wife and father in law are PE. licened civil engineers, FIL. with a masters degree in civil engineering, and the wife with a bachelors, both specializing in structures. The father in law has 40+ years exp. and my wife has 12. Both are experienced in design and failure assesment. I myself am a professional fleet mechanic with 12 years work experience and an Ase certified master medium and heavy truck tech, and the brother in law is a professional heavy equipment operator with around 18 years exp. That is 52 years of combined engineering experience, and 30 years of combined maintence and operation experience, combined, that is 82 years of experience relevant to this situation. All four of us have not had a round table type discussion on this, however we all live in close proximity to one another , and all have personaly seen the damage to the tractor. The general concensus is that it could have been any of the above mentioned occurences that caused the failure of the engine block and bell housing, as well as a few others that we have not discussed. We feel that at this point making a decision as to what caused this is premature to say the least, as the tractor has not been disassembled as of this writing. Also, the tractor is comepletely stock, just as New Holland designed it. I will update this post and keep everyone up to speed on any developments as they happen

Ok now this is getting into a peeing contest. Blah Blah. With all that expierence engineers still get it wrong at times and stuff breaks. It always turns into a finger pointing game, what gets lost is how to fix the problem. BTDT!! Your 12 years of ASE doesn't mean you've never had a come back!! Also doesn't mean you are a bad mechanic, Out of all you listed (all 82 years worth...whatever that means), I'd value your BIL 18 years of field expierence over all the rest.

BTW, I've got 1.5 years of junior college. So there!!

 

[marc2000gt]

Ok now this is getting into a peeing contest. Blah Blah. With all that expierence engineers still get it wrong at times and stuff breaks. It always turns into a finger pointing game, what gets lost is how to fix the problem. BTDT!! Your 12 years of ASE doesn't mean you've never had a come back!! Also doesn't mean you are a bad mechanic, Out of all you listed (all 82 years worth...whatever that means), I'd value your BIL 18 years of field expierence over all the rest.

BTW, I've got 1.5 years of junior college. So there!!

After what I saw on mine, I would still be wondering about dealer install. I had to also reroute my hydraulic hoses going to the fel. One was rubbing against the rear tire, and the foot pedals were chewing up another hose. It looked like a real rush job.


BTW, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.