Bucket Breakout Force

[Gem99ultra]

It's embarrassing to be so ignorant regarding terms that are apparently everyday conversation among so many knowledgeable tractor owners/operators. But, I'd rather be embarrassed than to remain ignorant. So, here's my two questions:

a) What does the term "bucket breakout force" means please.

b) I'm also trying to understand the amount of weight the FEL on a B2650 will handle, assuming I've added plenty of counterweight. That info never seems to be published. Is there a rule of thumb, or just how can I predetermine, short of damaging the tractor?

Many thanks for the education.

 

[bridge4]

It's embarrassing to be so ignorant regarding terms that are apparently everyday conversation among so many knowledgeable tractor owners/operators. But, I'd rather be embarrassed than to remain ignorant. So, here's my two questions:

a) What does the term "bucket breakout force" means please.

b) I'm also trying to understand the amount of weight the FEL on a B2650 will handle, assuming I've added plenty of counterweight. That info never seems to be published. Is there a rule of thumb, or just how can I predetermine, short of damaging the tractor?

Many thanks for the education.

I remember being told "If you have a question, someone else probably has the same one". I'd be happy to hear more information on this too, since tractor companies tout this spec a lot.

 

[diesel85]

This is what I've felt is the correct answer from using machinery for a good part of my life: Breakout force is the combination of the lift cylinders and the curl cylinders both operated at the same time at ground level to break out of the pile. Sometimes measured at the bucket lip, sometimes measured at the pins

 

[RjCorazza]

Breakout force is what the bucket roll back function is capable of, for example when you chain a fence post to the bucket and roll the bucket back to exert force of the post.

The other specifications have historically not been very standardized. Some give full height ratings at the loader bucket PINS, some at 500mm forward of the pins. I have also seen more real world estimates of specified bucket sizes lifting various materials in a struck or heaped bucket. All material will have different densities and weights, so it's not very precise.

I have never been too concerned about exceeding my loader's capacity. It will complain when you ask too much of it. I will say that I generally don't push the limits when doing loader work.

 

[RjCorazza]

I never considered breakout force as combining the lift and curl cylinders. I suspect if manufactures could advertise a higher number using both, that they would.
Anyway, here are the hard numbers for the B2650 (don't know what bucket type of there are options :

 

[moship]

Can't speak for the FEL manuals for the B2650, but other FEL operator manuals included lift curves that might provide the information your looking for.

Perhaps someone with a B2650 FEL operator manual could snap a picture of the pages and post for you. (Assuming the curves are still published)

Example from my Grand L series tractor shown below for reference.

 

[diesel85]

RJ, the reason I mention this is from lots of time behind machines with loaders. Lift capacity is from the two outer (side) cylinders, and breakout if from all cylinders. I notice if I dive into a load, and not use the bucket cylinder, the machine has a tougher time picking the load up from the pile, versus using all available cylinders.

 

[RjCorazza]

RJ, the reason I mention this is from lots of time behind machines with loaders. Lift capacity is from the two outer (side) cylinders, and breakout if from all cylinders. I notice if I dive into a load, and not use the bucket cylinder, the machine has a tougher time picking the load up from the pile, versus using all available cylinders.

It makes perfect sense. It just never occurred to me. I did research my tractor's specs, and Kubota does in fact list a breakout force that is higher than the listed "roll back force".
Learn something every day!

 

[Dave M7040]

This is what I've felt is the correct answer from using machinery for a good part of my life: Breakout force is the combination of the lift cylinders and the curl cylinders both operated at the same time at ground level to break out of the pile. Sometimes measured at the bucket lip, sometimes measured at the pins

With an open center system, which is what most Kubota farm tractors have, you cannot develop max pressure in both the bucket and lift arm cylinders at the same time.

Dave M7040

 

[diesel85]

Well, it may not be, but I also have a feeling physics has something to do with roll back and lift at the same time to get a nice chunk of feed, dirt or a stump out.

All I'm giving is from an operators perspective. Whether or not it's hydraulic forces in action, might well not be. Who knows. LOL