Backhoe Build A Backhoe For PT425... It Could Happen

[J_J]

J_J,
Sorry it took so long to get the fittings tested... had some "things" to take care of.

The power beyond ports fit in just fine. Sorry I couldn't be of help on that one.

I wanted to use 90 degree fittings on the four work ports so that all my hoses would travel in the down direction. Unfortunately, there is not enough room to put in four W's. They hit each other when I screw them in. Good news is I did not order them yet. I only ordered the ones for the in and out. I'll have to look through the fittings at Surplus Center to see what they have.

I also had to relocate the two outside valves from the rear of my mounting plate to the front of the mounting plate to accomodate the length of the power beyond port/90 degree fitting combination. The center post that I mounted the bracket to is in the way. Also, this will allow me to keep some hoses away from my legs. The outrigger valve will remain in the center where it is now.

David, On using the fittings, I am using 90 degree fittings when I can. I am using straight fittings on the cylinder side of the valves, and attaching hydraulic lines that have a built in 90 JIC. I know that you are using three joystick, but I thought that I would use electric valves on the outriggers, and using toggle switches for control..

Maybe, that 0-ring on the power beyond is a little tight. I will try again.

 

[RonMar]

David, I too went through the same thought process about the small backhoe project. Although you can find a used add on units, they usually run anywhere from $2500 to $5000, but they are just to heavy for the PT. I found a guy in Canada that laser cuts the small parts, and ships them to you in several boxes. I had to buy the 4X6, and 4X4 box stock locally. Steel has gone up about 30 % since then. The one I started is almost finished. I have built three different buckets for the unit. I'm guessing that the whole unit weighs around 650 lbs. I purchased all my cylinders and valves from Ebay.
I'm debating about using joystick or electric valves for the control. I adapted the unit for the three point setup.

JJ, I have also been going thru this exact process, buy or build... I was looking at that laser cut parts kit from the guy in Canada. Could you tell me how thick the steel is that is used for the boom swing pivot plates? Those parts pre-cut would seem to me to really speed up the time involved in fabrication and might just be worth the price if I could adapt the boom pivot area to the frame mount I have in mind for my tractor. Could you also tell me how far apart the boom pivot base plates are spaced vertically? Do yo have any pictures of that boom pivot area on your project?

Thanks

 

[J_J]

JJ, I have also been going thru this exact process, buy or build... I was looking at that laser cut parts kit from the guy in Canada. Could you tell me how thick the steel is that is used for the boom swing pivot plates? Those parts pre-cut would seem to me to really speed up the time involved in fabrication and might just be worth the price if I could adapt the boom pivot area to the frame mount I have in mind for my tractor. Could you also tell me how far apart the boom pivot base plates are spaced vertically? Do yo have any pictures of that boom pivot area on your project?

Thanks

Here is just one picture of the spindle just welded together. The thickness is 3/8, or 1/2 in

 

[MossRoad]

J_J,
I'm using 90 degree fittings on the cylinders and straight fittings on the hoses. Pretty funny... two ways to accomplish the same thing.

As for the third valve VS the electronic soleniod valves, if I add a thumb I will either do that or use a manual diverter valve to switch between outrigger and thumb control.

 

[RonMar]

Here is just one picture of the spindle just welded together. The thickness is 3/8, or 1/2 in

Thanks JJ, that was just what I was looking for. I kind of like the way the plates setup the outrigger angle. I will have to look at that guys website again. I think his parts kit is around $999, but it shure would save a bunch of fab time. Are you still working on the plumbing or have you got to use it any yet? I would be interested to hear how it works for you.

Thanks

 

[J_J]

Thanks J, that was just what I was looking for. I kind of like the way the plates setup the outrigger angle. I will have to look at that guys website again. I think his parts kit is around $999, but it shire would save a bunch of Fabe time. Are you still working on the plumbing or have you got to use it any yet? I would be interested to hear how it works for you.

Thanks

Every thing is welded together, and I just received the joystick valves. I plan to use two joystick valves , and two electric valves in my setup. I am also thinking of using two hyd sources. PTO, and the Aux circuit.

 

[J_J]

Thanks J, that was just what I was looking for. I kind of like the way the plates setup the outrigger angle. I will have to look at that guys website again. I think his parts kit is around $999, but it shire would save a bunch of Fabe time. Are you still working on the plumbing or have you got to use it any yet? I would be interested to hear how it works for you.

Thanks

Every thing is welded together, and I just received the joystick valves. I plan to use two joystick valves , and two electric valves in my setup. I am also thinking of using two hyd sources. PTO, and the Aux circuit.

 

[J_J]

David, Check out this statement of the power beyond valve. This might change my thinking on some things. For instance, it seem like with a power beyond plug installed, the fluid flows through both valves until you activate upstream position . What happens when you are using the bucket, and you want to lift at the same time. Will the second function still work, or does it have to wait till the stick is back in neutral? According that statement the up stream valve has priority. What say you?

POWER BEYOND (HIGH PRESSURE CARRYOVER): A sleeve attachment which permits the oil flow from one valve (when in neutral) to be used by another valve downstream. Hence, a 3-spool valve could be connected to a 2-spool valve to create a 5-spool valve, The first valve takes priority and must have a separate outlet port to return oil from an activator back to the reservoir.

 

[RonMar]

JJ
Spool priority will be a drawback of using a simpler open center valve with power beyond configuration. One valve operation at a time with the upstream valve having priority.

That is the advantage of using a parallel ported valve for the hoe. If I understand it correctly, when you operate a spool on a parallel ported valve, it diverts fluid to the circuit you are working on and into a parallel buss/dead end manifold. Any other spool you operate will not be able to draw fluid from the main manifold as the first spool has diverted it already. But as you move the lever, that spool will connect to the parallel and share the fluid that the first spool has sent there.

Now if the two valves individually have parallel ports internally, then all the spools on that valve can share the flow. But since the parallel gallery isn't connected between the two valves, only the main gallery via the PB port, the second valve will be deprived when any of the spools on the first valve are used.

I was thinking of getting another 2 spool open center to go along with the one I already have extra for my hoe project(save me a few $) and this will be a drawback. But my pump output is only about 5.5GPM, so how much sharing could they really do?

 

[J_J]

JJ
Spool priority will be a drawback of using a simpler open center valve with power beyond configuration. One valve operation at a time with the upstream valve having priority.

That is the advantage of using a parallel ported valve for the hoe. If I understand it correctly, when you operate a spool on a parallel ported valve, it diverts fluid to the circuit you are working on and into a parallel buss/dead end manifold. Any other spool you operate will not be able to draw fluid from the main manifold as the first spool has diverted it already. But as you move the lever, that spool will connect to the parallel and share the fluid that the first spool has sent there.

Now if the two valves individually have parallel ports internally, then all the spools on that valve can share the flow. But since the parallel gallery isn't connected between the two valves, only the main gallery via the PB port, the second valve will be deprived when any of the spools on the first valve are used.

I was thinking of getting another 2 spool open center to go along with the one I already have extra for my hoe project(save me a few $) and this will be a drawback. But my pump output is only about 5.GM, so how much sharing could they really do?

Thanks
That is the reason that I was going to use the Aux circuit hydraulics on the second joystick valve, and my electric valves on the stabilizers.

 

[MossRoad]

David, Check out this statement of the power beyond valve. This might change my thinking on some things. For instance, it seem like with a power beyond plug installed, the fluid flows through both valves until you activate upstream position . What happens when you are using the bucket, and you want to lift at the same time. Will the second function still work, or does it have to wait till the stick is back in neutral? According that statement the up stream valve has priority. What say you?

POWER BEYOND (HIGH PRESSURE CARRYOVER): A sleeve attachment which permits the oil flow from one valve (when in neutral) to be used by another valve downstream. Hence, a 3-spool valve could be connected to a 2-spool valve to create a 5-spool valve, The first valve takes priority and must have a separate outlet port to return oil from an activator back to the reservoir.

The way I understand it is as follows:

In my setup, I am using three 2-spool valves. The fluid enters the first valve through the inlet port and exits through the power beyond port. The outlet port is plugged. The fluid then enters the second valve inlet port and exits through the power beyond port. It's outlet port is also plugged. The fluid then enters the third valve inlet port and exits through either the outlet port or the power beyond port if I install it. I will probably not install it, as I will not have another valve downstream from that. I will plug that port.

With the power beyond ports installed as I have described above, the whole three joystick setup acts like one big 6 spool valve. Any of the spools should be able to operate simultaneously with the others.

I think that's correct, at least. Maybe not! I'll find out when I set it all up, though... that's for sure!!!

If that is not how it works, I'll have to provide returns from each valve outlet port.

 

[MossRoad]

Well, I found a link to a good diagram at Prince.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/RD5000InstS.pdf

It shows that, first, I will need to unplug the return port and add a return for all the valves. Not too bad. Just a couple more hoses and a couple tees.

Second, the first valve will take priority over the second and both of those over the third, etc...

So... I'll have to carfully plan which spools will be used the most simultaneously and put them on the same valve body. Then the second most used will go on the second valve and the outriggers will stay on the third.

Lastly, I'll have to plug the power beyond port on the third valve body.

Does that sound correct?

 

[J_J]

Well, I found a link to a good diagram at Prince.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/RD5000InstS.pdf

It shows that, first, I will need to unplug the return port and add a return for all the valves. Not too bad. Just a couple more hoses and a couple tees.

Second, the first valve will take priority over the second and both of those over the third, etc...

So... I'll have to car fully plan which spools will be used the most simultaneously and put them on the same valve body. Then the second most used will go on the second valve and the outriggers will stay on the third.

Lastly, I'll have to plug the power beyond port on the third valve body.

Does that sound correct?

Since this is my first attempt at hooking up joystick valves, this will be part of my learning curve. I had thought that you could operate two valves at the same time. I have seen backhoes work, and they can curl and swing at the same time. Perhaps they are using different valves. I will try and work around this by using the Aux circuit for one valve, and the PTO for the main valve plus two electric valves for the stabilizer legs. Those are the least used valves.

 

[J_J]

David, I did find out some more data on those joystick valves. You can operate two functions at the same time on the first valve. Other wise , you can lift the boom, and dump at the same time, at 1/2 the speed, since you are splitting the flow, and that is assuming that the boom and curl are on the same valve . The second valve will be be in a static mode until you are back to neutral on the first valve. Knowledge is a powerful thing, if I could only remember everything I have read or heard.

 

[MossRoad]

David, I did find out some more data on those joystick valves. You can operate two functions at the same time on the first valve. Other wise , you can lift the boom, and dump at the same time, at 1/2 the speed, since you are splitting the flow, and that is assuming that the boom and curl are on the same valve . The second valve will be be in a static mode until you are back to neutral on the first valve. Knowledge is a powerful thing, if I could only remember everything I have read or heard.

I knew about the two spools on one assembly being able to operate at the same time.

I also think that if you are not using all of the flow in the first assembly, any left over flow will be going out the power beyond port to any downstream valve assemblies. They should be able to operate, but at reduced speed for the reasons you mention.

 

[MossRoad]

I also read at the Brand website installation guides that any use of teflon tape voids the warranty. Here's what is says...

"Pipe thread sealant – Warranty is void when Teflon tape is
used to seal pipe threads. This is because Teflon tape is a
friction reducing agent which allows customers to overtorque
fittings. We recommend using a sealant that does not
include friction reducing agents i.e. Lead Plate."

As for which functions to put on which joystick, it may take some experimenting to decide which functions I want to operate together and which ones I need seperate.

For a flat bottom trench, I think I would want to set the angle of the bucket with my left hand, then with the right hand be able to control pulling it back towards me while controlling the depth. At the end of the pull stroke, I could curl the bucket with my left hand while lifting with my right, then lift the bucket out of the hole and swing and dump with my left hand.

Anyhow, I could see where some functions would be better on the same joystick sometimes and on different joysticks other times. That's why I'm hoping for some useage of both joysticks simultaneously. If not, I'll just have to figure out by usage which functions should be paired together and prioritized. At least they will be easy to change just by moving the hose connections from one joystick to the other.

 

[Mith]

The fluid enters the first valve through the inlet port and exits through the power beyond port. The outlet port is plugged.

Moss, I think you need to have line from the valve to the tank in addition to the power beyond port.
The fliud that comes out of the rams when you actuate them needs to go to the tank.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss, I think you need to have line from the valve to the tank in addition to the power beyond port.
The fliud that comes out of the rams when you actuate them needs to go to the tank.

Yeah, I'm getting that impression, too. The Power Beyond port is high pressure to the next valve bank. The fluid coming out of the rams is low pressure and needs to take a different route back to the tank. That route is the return port on the valve body. I'm going to understand this stuff sooner or later.

 

[RonMar]

Yeah, I'm getting that impression, too. The Power Beyond port is high pressure to the next valve bank. The fluid coming out of the rams is low pressure and needs to take a different route back to the tank. That route is the return port on the valve body. I'm going to understand this stuff sooner or later.

The return port is also where the fluid goes when you trip the safety on that valve. PB to next valve, return or outlet port to resovoir. This path needs to be low restriction as many valves can't handle much pressure on the return port(Prince specs no more than 500 PSI on this port).

 

[J_J]

David, Did you notice that Baileys is carrying that Brand joystick valve now at $185.00 . Could have saved a few bucks anyway.

It can also handle 21 gpm.