building a bandsaw mill

[muddstopper]

I am wanting to build a bandsaw mill to saw my own logs for my retirement home. I have watched about every video about bandsaws on youtube and its seems to me to be a pretty simple build, but I have a few questions. One of my concerns is chooseing the right wheels for the band to run on. I have seen everything from spare tires to vbelt pulley's.

One question is concerning the spare tires. It would seem to me that using a spare tire would create a lot of un-necessary rotating mass. Take more horsepower to turn and increase the possibilty of blade failure in the event your blade hit something hard (knot),
in the log. I also have concerns about any money being saved going the spare tire route due to the fact you now have to make spindles and hubs to mount the tires on. Free wheels from the scrap yard doesnt mean much if I have to pay a machinist to make all the hardware to mount them with.

My other concern is the use of large Vbelt pullies. Seems light weight enought, low rotating mass, less horsepower to pull and belts can be bought at any parts store. Priced about $45 for a 18.75 dia pulley, $12 for Bseries belt. $60+/- per wheel. Now the question is in longliveity of the pully and/or belt. I have seen many an aircompressor pully break the center out, altho they are usually many years old. Considering there might be some sidepressure on the pulley's while sawing, is this going to accerate metal fatigue and possible failure, or is this a non issue because the band guide wheels are taking all of the pressure. Another concern is the belts. How well do they last, do they tend to slip on the pully or the band blade and does it take excessive tension to keep them from slipping.

Factory bandwheels seem to be pretty expensive, $300+ for 20in wheels. I will be building a 36in capacity mill capable of 40ft lenght logs. To be honest, I can buy already milled logs cheaper than I can cut my own, but I cant get anything over 30ft locally. I figure if I have the mill, I can also cut my roof decking, subfloor, floor joist, beams, and other lumber needs out of the logs and it makes building a mill worthwhile, and I can sell it when I'm done with it.

I would like to hear any opinions concerning which type of wheel setup I should choose to start this build. If you have built you own mill, or know someone that has, any knowledge you can pass along, wish you had done different, etc, that might keep me from making the same mistakes would be very helpful.

 

[Baby Grand]

Please excuse my wild speculation - I have no experience with bandsaws other than a few hours of shop time on commercial units - a Delta used to cut plywood and a Grobb to cut 1" steel plate stock.

If you can get the whole tire/wheel/spindle assemblies in good condition from an auto, I think you have done an end run on a lot of the fabrication work and expense. You will have heavy duty, balanced wheels, set on heavy duty, easily replaceable, preloaded bearings with little or no runout. Plus there may be a good feature on the spindle assembly for easy attachment to the saw frame. The saw blade will tend to center on the tire tread and you can adjust the saw tension by changing the tire pressure, eliminating the need for yet another mechanical adjustment.

About that added mass when compared to a slender pulley - I understand your concern about wasted energy, but the added inertia may be usefull in maintaining a constant saw blade surface velocity when cutting materials that vary greatly in composition - like moving from clear grain to and old, hardened knot. If you can prevent the blade from changing velocity with added mass, I suspect you will reduce accelerations and therefore impulse loads on the blade. Sort of the way an old heavy tractor can work circles around a new, very light tractor that advertises more power. With the added mass of the flywheels you may find you actually need a less powerful motor to cut a challenging log.

Although I have no skin in this game, I have been thinking about building one for myself. Especially when I see what a pile of siding costs at the store.

 

[muddstopper]

Thanks for the reply.

I have no doubt that the spare tire setup works, I have seen a ton of them on youtube. I havent seen one work in person tho. One thing about youtube videos, lots of folks post their creations as they build them or just after they have built them, but few folks will comeback a year later and let you know if their beast is still functioning. That is why I am wanting feed back from someone that has actually built and used their bandsaw mill and is still using it. I dont want to build something only to find out later that it could of been better if I had only used this part instead of some other part. I am actually leaning toward buying the factory wheels, but at about $700 just to start this grand project, it has me squirming about how best to spend the money.

Just for more info, the majority of the wood I will be sawing will be whitepine. I have enought of the large stuff to build several cabins if I wanted to. I will also be sawing some yellowpine, as well as some red and white oak. Maybe some wildcherry thrown in for cabinet work.

 

[J_J]

You might look at boat trailer weld on stubs, hubs, tires and wheels.

Use a hyd motor or electric motor to move the bandsaw up and down the rack.

 

[forgeblast]

Bandsaw Sawmill forums :: Index
I have lurked a bit to see if building a bandmill was something I wanted to undertake.
they normally have a lot more in build posts.
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/...ml?PHPSESSID=7b98b5c5e8145ffa01f22228fc6ad7c6
also has a milling forum.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Keep your eyes open for an old GM midsize sedan... Pontiac, Chevy, etc. Mid '80's to mid '90's. These have rear hubs with a flat face on the back. They're easy to fabricate around. If you can get the whole car you have the hubs, wheels, and a lot of drive components. I bet you can get a non-running one for $100 or so if you look around. Once you're done you'll get about that much out of the scrap.

 

[sandman2234]

I know of several people who built their own bandmills, but was not involved in the build so most of the mistakes you will have to make yourself. Sorry!! Only one has been a personal friend, the others were from the forestry forum, which has some really good and knowledgeable people on it. It is a great forum, and has values similar to this one.
The question about having the spindles built to fit wheels, has been answered in several directions. One is the auto spindles that bolt on with a flat back, and I will add to that you might use a rear axle from a front wheel drive car which MIGHT have a piece of axle available to you to allow easier mounting for the idler wheel. Muffler clamp style of mounting. As far the powered drive wheel, that gets a little more complicated, but there is a huge diversity in how spindles and wheels are driven in the automotive field over the years, and those parts are cheap (comparatively) to what else will be available. If auto style wheels don't make the cut with you, then definitely look at trailer axles and hubs. The good thing about them is you won't have the brake drums to worry about, as the hubs can be bought without brake drums.
If you don't have acess to machine tools such as lathe and mills, it would be a really idea to find a local shop or a hobbiest that accepts donuts and beer bribes, lol. If your not a good fabricator with metal, stop now and save yourself a lot of heartaches. If you can fab up simple metal items with sucess, continue on and realize that a complicated bandmill is just a bunch of simple projects combined together.
Pulley wise, the one I would pick would not be a lightweight pulley, but a multiple belt heavy duty pulley, preferably with a taperlock or QD style of way to mount it to the shaft. Those can be found in junk yards that specialize or deal in machines rather than just automobiles. If you can't locate the right size, you might need to consider (if the carriage allows room for) using a jackshaft to give you a chance to reduce the speed without having to go with a really big pulley or a really small driven pulley. \
What you have pictured in your mind is going to make the factors that control what will and won't work, so if you have sketches or pictures of one like you want to build, please post them for us to see.

Good luck with the project, looking forward to hearing more.
David from jax

 

[Barry 1]

I built my donut tire mill 4 years ago,based on plans I bought from Bill Reeks. Then I built a 26'x28' barn over it-cedar 6x6 posts,poplar lumber,and oak siding. Right now,I am building a 24'x36' barn,but going with all metal siding.
I have never broken a blade,but I've ruined a few, sawing into the log stops.
I used trailer stub axles and hubs,the belt pulley is the lip off of another rim,welded to the drive wheel. Still on the first belt-single B belt.
I had the scrap metal,and an 11hp Honda.Bought a house trailer frame,and doubled it up,for the frame rails and cross members ($100)
I have had no problems with it, and just used it again today. The biggest problem I had,was trying to roll logs onto it,by myself. I built a log hauler arch trailer,and I can back right over the mill and set the log down on it.
All you have to do,to change blades,is let the air out of one tire,change it,and pump it back up.
Cook's Saw is the best place to get blades,and they sell all the wheels and parts,if you want to go with cast wheels.
I could put a 36" log on it,but 30" is about the largest I had,and I can cut 18'
If you are going to put 36"x40' logs on it,you will need a strong frame,or a concrete pad to set it on. You can't cut straight,if the frame flexes.
Mine is a no frills,hand crank up and down,push it down the track,basic mill.
Simple,cheap,cuts great,kind of slow(my speed) Best thing I ever built!

 

[MillWeld]

Many people have done this. Check out www.forestryforum.com.
Bob

 

[Groo]

I run a 34hp full hydraulic factory band-sawmill. The only time the blade ever stopped apart from the blade breaking, it stopped slowly, killed the engine and ruined the blade anyways. Speaking to blade breakage; I think we got a batch (or more likely a brand) of over hardened blades. they just like to let go out of the blue for no reason, but if they last long enough to get dull, they are fine.

Go with the tires if you home build, but you are going to run into real problems trying to cut 40' stuff. The taper will mess you up, and you can't just jack it up on one end since the log will bend if you do that and a straight cut will be bowed once the tension is released. If the only reason you want a mill is to cut 40' stuff, just buy engineered joists.

you might also want to look into swing blade portable sawmills. I think they have some real advantages over bandsaw mills, but fall sort in places too.

 

[BHD]

I used the v pulley approach and HUNG a v belt on it for the tire, (it is just large enough to drop on the pulley it is not glued but it is self cleaning,

I used trailer spindles and reversed the hub as stationary and used the shaft on the pulley,

I ended up with 5 bolt hub, (If I was building again I would use 4 bolt, as when you bolt them all one has to do is shim the hub to what ever you bolt it to for alignment,

(now I have not seen plans for a spare tire unit, but my understating on some of them they use air pressure to tension the blade,

on the pulley system one Will need some type of a slide and some form of tension system to tighten the blade, (I just used a section of all thread and tighten up a nut (similar to a pulley tensioner),

if your blade guides are set up correctly there should only be the blade tension on them, and If your guides are not set up right I doubt if you will keep your blade on the wheels regardless of what system you use,

(I know the pictures are no that good, but what I have of it, and there were taken about 20 years ago, ),

I used bearing for a JD gauge wheel bearing and sleeve for the basic guide bears,
http://www.shoupparts.com/SH45951/ or http://www.shoupparts.com/SH45742/ I used the sleeve as well,

(do not rember what I used for the thurst bearing, I may look tomorrow and see).

 

[PILOON]

I once saw where a fellow used automotive MAGS and machined them down to blade width and left a shoulder for the blade backside.
On the backside of the driven mag he bolted an appropriate V-belt driven pulley.
Naturally you'd need the axles that went with the wheels.
I recall that his clutching arrangement was a simple levered binder pulley.
In all cases it would be best to design around the woodmizer standard blade size to avoid custom blade set up fees.

 

[Groo]

I once saw where a fellow used automotive MAGS and machined them down to blade width and left a shoulder for the blade backside.
On the backside of the driven mag he bolted an appropriate V-belt driven pulley.
Naturally you'd need the axles that went with the wheels.
I recall that his clutching arrangement was a simple levered binder pulley.
In all cases it would be best to design around the woodmizer standard blade size to avoid custom blade set up fees.

If there are custom blade fees, they are minimal.
Timber Wolf Band Mill & Resaw Blade Pricing | Suffolk Machinery - Timber Wolf Bandsaw Blades

I'm guessing the wheel in question was a 15". That's a bit smaller than I'd like.
20" would be good, but pricey.

 

[muddstopper]

I have already considered the front wheel drive hub and spindle if I decide to go the spare tire route. That type of hub is usually bolted using three bolts to the strut tower and the splined axle shaft runs thru the hub, I used one for making a rotating boom on my wood splitter. The axle shaft is a short stub and could be welded to a jackshaft for the drive wheel side, the axle is to short to machine to accept a drive pulley.

BHD, it appears in your pic of the drive wheels that your belts are loose and sagging. I had imagined in my mind the belts should fit pretty snug. Is your setup causeing any problems with blade slippage, or is it a non issue?

Pics or drawing where asked for, I havent done any yet. My pic's in my mind ( usually better than my actual design LOL), call for a 2x4 boxed tube for the bed system. Someone mentioned the weight and flex of a 40ft log which is why I will go with heavy wall tube. I will be building the bed in 2 sections,the main section will be 24ft in lenght and the other 20ft. I wont be sawing 40ft logs all the time The tube will be topped with angle to use as a track for the carriage. The carriage will be made of 2x2 heavy box. I will use hitch reciver tube to mount the blade wheels on so as to allow it to slide up and down on the carriage. Welded to the hitch reciver tube I will be using 1in acme threaded rod on each side. The two threaded rods will be connected with a sprocket and drive chain to adjust blade height.. I also plan on using a right angle drive 5:1 gear box coupled to a stator rotor hydraulic motor to power the carriage thru the log. The gear box will be hooked to a roller drive chain unless I can figure out a better system. A hydraulicflow control will control drive speed. Drive wheels for band blade will be mounted on jackshafts with pillow block or flange bearings. The mounting plate for bearings will be a hinge system to adjust toe in. Engine, not sure of the HP but its a big Kholer with 90* cylinders instead of the Vee design. 1 7/16 horizonal shaft. We think its a 24hp but ????

Sawmill will be set up stationary where I intend to build the house. I'll mount axles, but only to transport if from my shop to its new home for the next 5 years. It will be used first to saw out the lumber for its own house and for cureing the lumber to be used in my house. Once my house is complete, I will decide then whether to keep or sell the mill. If i sell it, I'll have a really big shed to convert to a workshop, Hmmm! might ought to pour concrete floor in sawmill shed first, never know how much money is available for doing such things later on.

Thanks for all the suggestions, keep them coming.

 

[BHD]

actuly I got the idea from wood mizer band saws, on the loose belt idea, it caused no problems,

 

[KYErik]

I used 8 inch trailer tires/spindles for my bandwheels and carefully welded a 9" pulley to the rim- it was an exact fit and easy to center. The 8" trailer tire has a 16 inch circumference.

The spindles are each set in a pipe with two sets of angle adjusting bolts (one each 120 degrees) clamping them in position. This gives me adjustment in all 3 planes so I can get the blade tracking correct. The blade is tensioned with tire pressure as well as with a telescoping idler wheel frame (see the pic with the tape measure).

There are two "generations" of mill pics here. The original mill had a single 5hp electric motor (actually a 7.5 hp 3 phase with a static converter). This past year my dad and I added a second electric motor and a hydraulic feed (you can see the power steering pump in one pic). The hydraulic feed was OK (hydraulic motor on the carriage controlled by a spool valve pulling a cable attached to the frame), but I prefer to hand feed with a crank (same cable set up but I crank the cable spool). The hand crank lets you "feel" how hard you are pushing the saw so you can adjust speed better than with the hydraulic feed (and in some cases you can cut faster with the hand feed).

The current set up uses two 5hp electric motors pulling in tandem joined by a belt and did well making 17" wide white oak boards.

The saw bed is the frame off a 1959 chevy 2 ton truck with a pice of angle iron on the sawdust output side and v-groove casters on the saw carriage. I can cut 28" diameter logs that are 16 feet long.

Saw guides are made from sets of standard size bearings from TSC.

My only disappointment is with blade life. I can only cut one clean white oak log (no dirt on the bark- 15 foot by 20 inch diameter) into 1 inch thick planks and then I have to send the blade off for a $6 sharpening. I am running 158" long woodmizer blades, 1.25 inch wide and 4 and 9 degree hook angle- both angles seem to work well. Blade speed is about 5000 linear feet per minute.

 

[BHD]

here is a company that appears to make a "v belt" tire,
Heavy Duty Grooved Urethane V-Belts For Band Wheels | Suffolk Machinery - Timber Wolf Bandsaw Blades


http://www.woodmizer-planet.com/index.pl?act=PRODUCT&id=159

http://www.google.com/patents/US487...TT9LrAsfWiAKo1qAC#v=onepage&q=4878411&f=false

 

[sandman2234]

I have already considered the front wheel drive hub and spindle if I decide to go the spare tire route. That type of hub is usually bolted using three bolts to the strut tower and the splined axle shaft runs thru the hub, I used one for making a rotating boom on my wood splitter. The axle shaft is a short stub and could be welded to a jackshaft for the drive wheel side, the axle is to short to machine to accept a drive pulley.

BHD, it appears in your pic of the drive wheels that your belts are loose and sagging. I had imagined in my mind the belts should fit pretty snug. Is your setup causeing any problems with blade slippage, or is it a non issue?

Pics or drawing where asked for, I havent done any yet. My pic's in my mind ( usually better than my actual design LOL), call for a 2x4 boxed tube for the bed system. Someone mentioned the weight and flex of a 40ft log which is why I will go with heavy wall tube. I will be building the bed in 2 sections,the main section will be 24ft in lenght and the other 20ft. I wont be sawing 40ft logs all the time The tube will be topped with angle to use as a track for the carriage. The carriage will be made of 2x2 heavy box. I will use hitch reciver tube to mount the blade wheels on so as to allow it to slide up and down on the carriage. Welded to the hitch reciver tube I will be using 1in acme threaded rod on each side. The two threaded rods will be connected with a sprocket and drive chain to adjust blade height.. I also plan on using a right angle drive 5:1 gear box coupled to a stator rotor hydraulic motor to power the carriage thru the log. The gear box will be hooked to a roller drive chain unless I can figure out a better system. A hydraulicflow control will control drive speed. Drive wheels for band blade will be mounted on jackshafts with pillow block or flange bearings. The mounting plate for bearings will be a hinge system to adjust toe in. Engine, not sure of the HP but its a big Kholer with 90* cylinders instead of the Vee design. 1 7/16 horizonal shaft. We think its a 24hp but ????

Sawmill will be set up stationary where I intend to build the house. I'll mount axles, but only to transport if from my shop to its new home for the next 5 years. It will be used first to saw out the lumber for its own house and for cureing the lumber to be used in my house. Once my house is complete, I will decide then whether to keep or sell the mill. If i sell it, I'll have a really big shed to convert to a workshop, Hmmm! might ought to pour concrete floor in sawmill shed first, never know how much money is available for doing such things later on.

Thanks for all the suggestions, keep them coming.

With this description, the pictures are starting to come into focus, lol!
Just a thought... rather than the 2x4 tubing in heavy wall, which might not be as good as 2x5 or 6 in regular wall thickness, how about a mobile home frame? Or if you want to have an enclosed one, how about a shipping container, and remove one wall or build an overhead crane attached to the box to move the logs. I was just thinking that something used might be better than what you were suggesting to use. If you put plenty of supports to the ground, your 2x4 will work, but I would look for something a little different in used.
I like the idea of getting a workshop out of the deal when the house is built!!
David from jax

 

[Groo]

2x4 is going to be pretty floppy compare to what most mobile mills use, so you are going to need to have it pretty much sitting on the concrete pad, or some other form of near continuous support. I haven't pulled a tape, but my mill uses about 2x6 heavy wall box beams. a 2x6 is more than twice as strong as a 2x4. Mine has jacks every 10' or so, so it would seam you'd need them every 5' or even closer. I'd just set it on the pad.

I wouldn't bother with an axle or tounge until you are ready to move it.

 

[muddstopper]

Interesting comments on frame choice. I had thought the 2x4x1/4 box tubing would be overkill. Just baseing my opinion on some of the cheaper mills I have seen that use angle iron as a frame. I had planned on topping the 2x4 tube with 2x2x1/4 angle which would increase the ridgidity, but I chose the 1/4 angle because the thickness is almost the exact width of the bottom of the vee groove in some excess b-belt pullies I have and had planned on using as rollers for the carriage. I guess I need more opinions and do a little more research on this area of the build.

Believe it or not, I had thought about the shipping container ideal already, but it was decided I didnt want the container setting around the house after I'm done with the mill. They make great workshops or for storage, just not the look I am going for,(according to my wife), around her new home. Besides, if I have a sawmill, I can saw more lumber for storage buildings that come closer to meeting with her approval. I have already fought that fight with her, (and lost) where i live now.

The suggestions about the jacks being close together, I had also already considered, but was thinking every 6ft., a 24ft bed would get 5 on each side. I am sure when first leveled on bare ground there would be some setteling occur, but with proper sized base material, it should stabilize fairly quickly. If I pour a concrete pad first, then there should be very little movement, if any, once setup.

Getting back to the issue of using tires. If I decide to go that route, what would be the optimum dia I should be shooting for. I was aiming for around a 20in dia, but know some use much smaller. Is there any advantage to going smaller or larger.