building a barn first curve ball

[Rockbadchild]

I realize you are in Canada but in the US my understanding is the flood elevations are fairly accurate the way they are calculated. What is not accurate is the elevations of peoples property. Say the base flood elevation is 290. That number is probably in the ballpark. They show a part of your property in the flood at elevation 287. Maybe that part of the property is really 295. That’s kind of what it sounds like is going on with your property.

I understand what you mean, but I know the low spots and high spots on my property and it is not reflected by the flood zone, I would say the topo line has been smooth out or generalized but is more accurate then the flood line... as a example see where the bleu circle is that is a low spot on my property which is why I put in my propose flood zone within the sky blue but it is not in the flood zone in red and you see the elevation line in pink above it.

this is the map they used for the flood zone limits, I am still trying to figures out where its came from and who did it, but notice on it there is no topographic lines on it, so it looks like a child draw boundaries around streams.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, don't know if this is helpful at all, but flood models normally model something like 50 Different storm events; such as a 4"/hr storm, lasting 6 hours, or multiple 1-2" events over the coarse of 5 days, ect. Ever see a 14" rain in 6 hours? I have, tropical storm Debbi. In Florida, they have pretty good drainage models, but I don't know how universal those are. They may be modeling what happens when in a very major event, the down stream basin fills, and then fills back upstream? It's also entirely possible they made a mistake?

 

[paulsharvey]

Maybe I missed it, but, are you not allowed to build the barn in a flood zone, or is this about insurance? Would you Want to insure the barn? Is there a loan involved?

 

[Rockbadchild]

So, don't know if this is helpful at all, but flood models normally model something like 50 Different storm events; such as a 4"/hr storm, lasting 6 hours, or multiple 1-2" events over the coarse of 5 days, ect. Ever see a 14" rain in 6 hours? I have, tropical storm Debbi. In Florida, they have pretty good drainage models, but I don't know how universal those are. They may be modeling what happens when in a very major event, the down stream basin fills, and then fills back upstream? It's also entirely possible they made a mistake?

That's what it would happen the lake would back up to the creek nest as there is multiples entry points but regardless, no hurricanes nowhere in central Ontario and I calculated and my reservoir with its nest can take the biggest rain storm ever recorded in our region that happen in 1961

 

[Rockbadchild]

Maybe I missed it, but, are you not allowed to build the barn in a flood zone, or is this about insurance? Would you Want to insure the barn? Is there a loan involved?

they won't give me the building permit, or allow permanent construction within it a flood zone, I not planning on insuring it for water damage roof or ground, only fire.

The thing when I ask '' where is the line '' they answer was we don't know, I also ask what is it based on ... same answer... at that point I probably should've kept quiet and let them argue the location but I was scared to get screwed at the end as it was pretty obvious the whole thing was within, so I scaled it out and superposed it on a scaled google map screen shot of my land and saw where it was then I started to ask more question and started to process to show it made no sense to get it revised.

 

[MTGreen]

Sounds like you need to get an attorney involved. If you have to go through the city and they are all clueless and lazy/obstructive, a decent attorney should go through them like a hot knife through butter

 

[ultrarunner]

A surveyor was able to help a friend with his barn by accurately measuring elevation that led to the map redraw.

It took some time and money…

Even in California building in real flood plains occurs if you mitigate which can mean deep piles and elevating the inhabitable portion of the structure… expensive but the waterfront property is expensive.

Can you build a temporary building or do site work to elevate a pad?

 

[ultrarunner]

A legally deaf late in life friend was getting nowhere building his home so being a smart guy he hired the recently retired chief of planning to help.

The planner was a straight shooter and very detailed.

My friend posed the question saying here is my lot and here are my plans… how do I make this work?

About a week later the retired planner outlined a series of small changes and the steps to get approval plus he added the city must provide accommodation for disabled which by-passed all the counter people.

It worked and my friend said it was the best $600 spent.

As an outsider at the table a lot of it seemed to be “Speaking” the language of planning and having simple answers for questions asked so as not to introduce issues.

 

[paulsharvey]

Working around permitting (not this type) a while, it's not hard or complicated (in many cases), but the issue is; you don't know what you don't know. It's not the 'job' of the permitting department to always give suggestions, or explain you can change this small thing, or whatever, and then you'd be good. It's also not their job to point out easier or cheaper options. Does plan meet spec, yes, but that doesn't mean there isn't a cheaper/better/easier option, and most won't go to the effort to explain options.

There is a person I know of, that does permit applications, for like $750, for people (not plans, just handles the application). The truth is, you could just as easily stop by, and talk to a real person, spend the $50 application fee, and walk out with your permit. In the end, they are supposed to be public service... Not all permitting agencies work that way; and some times they are handcuffed by their regs; they might agree with you, and want to help; but not be able too, do to regs/statues/laws, ect


Also, don't know how Canada works, but do you have a local county commision, or some other, low level, elected rep, who you can speak too? Lot of times, that little bit of political pressure will get people to look at your purposal.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Working around permitting (not this type) a while, it's not hard or complicated (in many cases), but the issue is; you don't know what you don't know. It's not the 'job' of the permitting department to always give suggestions, or explain you can change this small thing, or whatever, and then you'd be good. It's also not their job to point out easier or cheaper options. Does plan meet spec, yes, but that doesn't mean there isn't a cheaper/better/easier option, and most won't go to the effort to explain options.

There is a person I know of, that does permit applications, for like $750, for people (not plans, just handles the application). The truth is, you could just as easily stop by, and talk to a real person, spend the $50 application fee, and walk out with your permit. In the end, they are supposed to be public service... Not all permitting agencies work that way; and some times they are handcuffed by their regs; they might agree with you, and want to help; but not be able too, do to regs/statues/laws, ect


Also, don't know how Canada works, but do you have a local county commision, or some other, low level, elected rep, who you can speak too? Lot of times, that little bit of political pressure will get people to look at your purposal.

Its a small community which is why I am surprised we have this kind of regulation but I ''believed'' they are willing to help and offer the best advise. My aunt is in the city council as well, I haven't talk to her yet but my dad did. We might go at the next town meeting to shake things up a bit and raise our concern ...

This is what I have done so far, I have sent the city my proposal and reasoning for it, they didn't know what I was talking about and sent it to their consultant for review, I don't know where it will go from there. I contacted the ministry of naturel resources to trace the origin of the map (no news yet) since its not the in the federal or provincial sites, (i've check and contacted them) and got my lawyer up to date I will talk to him on Monday. I will talk to the adjacent city inspector ( he is a friend ) as well on Monday (my town copied their bylaw and is getting that inspector over to our town for building inspections because we are too small to have one) I will see where this goes from there.