Building a pond questions

[bczoom]

Since we're talking about Bentonite, I've heard Vermiculite will do the same thing. Anyone know for sure? I believe it can be found at a lot of garden stores.

There's historically been issues whereby aspestos was found in vermiculite but I believe it's all tested now and no longer an issue.

 

[Dargo]

It's funny that you mention vermiculite. When I had my pool put in last year, they used vermiculite rather than concrete for the bottom. I thought the guy was nuts at first and was going to insist on concrete. Before I opened mouth and inserted foot, I thought I'd call several other companies who install swimming pools in my area. Sure enough, they all used vermiculite for the bottom.
I'm told that it is just like concrete except that it has these little spongy pellets that allow moisture to pass through. They claim they use that mixture instead of concrete in case moisture gets in between the pool liner and the vermiculite (or concrete). With vermiculite the moisture will seep through and not be trapped. Anyway, that seems to be their consistant story and they are sticking to it. So, I went with....vermiculite for the bottom. If they are wrong, I'll have several to cuss now.
I had no clue how to get the bentonite and had never heard of it until they used it to fix the lake where I used to live. I still know next to nothing about it, except that it definitely cured that lake. I'm glad you mentioned that it is available since those muskrats have already made some nice ruts in the island in my lake. I'm betting that if I repair the damage and use bentonite when I do, they will not be able to dig that particular spot out again.
I feel really stupid for being the one to mention bentonite, but being to dumb to to use it to fix muskrat damage on my island. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Duh! I'd better check my pulse to see if I'm still here! All I can think about is that I'll have to boat 5 gallon buckets of dirt out to the island to fill their holes. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Maybe I didn't want to remember that I have work to do... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bczoom]

Dargo,

Hmmm. Let's compare the 2 for a minute.

Bentonite doesn't get hard. It expands significantly when it gets wet which is its primary benefit as a sealant.

When you posted a few days ago (talking about the lake) "pretty well turned the dirt in our dam practically into concrete." Were you actually into the grey stuff (be it bentonite or vermiculite)? If so, I wonder if they had used vermiculite in whole or part on that project.

I'm not very familiar with vermiculite but based on your experience with the pool, it sounds like it does.

Back to the pond issue as it relates to varmints.
I used bentonite in the burrows the muskrats dug between the pond and the creek (only a 4' separated the 2 at water level). If they hadn't already punched all the way through, you could stuff the bentonite in the hole by hand. If on the dry side (they came in from the creek, which was rare), I would pack a bunch in then just cover the opening with dirt for esthetics. If it ever got wet, the bentonite would expand and immediately plug it. When they poked through from the pond side, I just took handfuls under water and stuffed in the hole as best I could. In either case, the muskrats didn't like the stuff and avoided the area.

If the muskrat had punched all the way through there's a couple different processes.
If no water flowing through - just stuff it full from the ends.
If water flowing through - using a sandbag or something, block the flow. Dig in from top and pack a lot of bentonite inside. When it gets wet, it'll fill all holes when you remove the sandbag.

OK, now moving on to your island issue.
Since it is an island and no water is really going to escape, it sounds like you could use either, as well as concrete. I had used concrete on other muskrat holes (away from the creek). Unfortunately, with any of these options, they’ll just dig elsewhere on the island. You may need to revert to the 7mm.

To haul your dirt/bentonite/concrete… (whatever you use), it sounds like you need an Argo Conquest or equivalent added to your stable.

 

[weedsportpete]

Thanks for info.. I didn't know it was this easy to find. I'll check out the Buffalo, NY company, but first I'll call the local well driller. A third possibility is the Great Lakes drilling company that is out here signing up gas leases and drilling wells. Maybe they can part with some.

 

[PHSteph]

A sandbag! That's it! I had a guy to come out today and look at the hole that is spouting water at the bottom of my dam, and he said he'd try to block it by stuffing a rock in there. But a sandbag is a much better idea. I like the idea that you could dig into it later and replace it with Bentonite. The trouble is that it's all under water. I need a scuba diver, not a general contractor.
PHSteph

 

[bczoom]

PHSteph,

Welcome to TBN.
Tell us a little more about your particular issue. How far below the water surface is your hole? How big is the hole? How much water pressure is behind it? Depending on the situation, you can do the bentonite and sandbag at the same time.

 

[Banks]

How much would it cost to build a pond 5 acres in length but only holding 3 acres of water, and having to dig 12ft. depth, soft to hard dirt terrain, and spring fed? Any estimates on how much it would cost to pay someone to do it?

 

[Dargo]

Figure about how many cubic yards of dirt you need to move. Then take that number times $1.50 to $2.00 per cubic yard. That is a range of what a lot of excavating companies in my area charge to move dirt. There again, that was a few years ago. Prices may have gone up since then.

For my pond, which is about 1 1/4 acres, I moved about 16000 cubic yards of dirt.

 

[MMM]

According to my soil conservationist, anything over 5 or 6' isn;t really beneficial to fish. My streamfed when overflowing is 11', but it's built in a ravine. I had gov help as it was an erosion control project and wasn't termed "pond", but "sediment basin".. It was cost shared at 75% gov funding. I believe ponds are 50%, if you have stock. Dirt isn't the only issue. The 100' of 10" pvc pipe and special Tee, elbow for riser system was pretty expensive also. I think my costs were around 3K$, but had to pay total and wait a year for gov check.

 

[Dargo]

I suppose it depends on what state you are in. I had some people suggest that I contact my local soil conservation office to look for assistance in building my lake. I got a 20 page legal document that basically said that they would share in the cost of digging my lake and stocking it, but it would have to be available for public use for 25 years. That being the case, no freaking way!! I'd just moved from an area where we had a 5 acre lake. I owned just over 4 acres of it and 11 other houses owned little slivers of land going into the other acre. The cost of maintenance and upkeep was divided up by what portion of the lake you owned. However, all people who had property going into the lake had "lake rights", which meant that they could go anywhere in the lake and around the entire shore area within a 5' distance from the water. Basically I provided all the maintenance, paid for all the chemicals, had all the responsibility, but had dozens of other hooligans using my dock, littering on my property and taking the fish I paid to stock the lake with! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Never again for me.

My lake / pond where I live now is completely contained on my property, and I bore all the expense of building it and stocking it. I don't have to "share" with anyone. I hope that doesn't sound bad, but, man, did I get burned where I last lived! I assume that each state is different, but in Indiana, I would do without before I accepted state assistance and had my personal property become a public place for fishing, swimming etc.!!!