Building a stick frame house in the woods in 90 days

[BuilderML]

I thought I was clear on this, its my money. :laughing: Look imagine if I didn't get his discount and went shopping around for different suppliers than he was used to working with and he had to pull his hair out working with a bunch of knuckleheads instead of his usual guys. It was mutually benefitial.

Deathtoblackberries,
My question is to your comment of " I asked the builder straight out what his discount was and made sure I got the builders discount " so i asked you why a homeowner thinks they should get that discount. Sorry but it doesn't sound to me like that is negotiating. I understand its your money. I was just wondering with the way you said that why you felt you should get it. Did you know that there is even more of a discount? You should of asked him for the price he pays for items if its for his personal home, after all it is your money.

 

[BuilderML]

Uh, wow, I didn't expect to spray jet fuel on this hornet nest when I inquired about the price/sq. ft. I apologize! One of the reasons that I asked was because the builder seems to be very willing to make any changes/upgrades on the fly. I wondered if that willingness to change on the fly was because he was making significant money for the changes, whether he truly wants a satisfied customer, whether he feels the pressure of public (Internet) scrutiny, or all of the above. Kind of wish now I had asked that question in a P.M.

I had a house built in 1988 that was an absolute nightmare from the moment they dug the basement backwards from the prints. I had to check and re-check the builders work every day and fought him tooth and nail to just stick to the plans. He cut corners (aka cheated me) every chance he could and it was very stressful. Your builder, however, is like working with your best friend, by contrast. I have to admit that if I got a final bill that was 80-100% higher than what we agreed to on the front end, I'd have a stroke or two. But, I do like what he has built so far.

mkane09

Its all good !!!:drink:

 

[deathtoblackberries]

Deathtoblackberries,
My question is to your comment of " I asked the builder straight out what his discount was and made sure I got the builders discount " so i asked you why a homeowner thinks they should get that discount. Sorry but it doesn't sound to me like that is negotiating. I understand its your money. I was just wondering with the way you said that why you felt you should get it. Did you know that there is even more of a discount? You should of asked him for the price he pays for items if its for his personal home, after all it is your money.

Of course its a negotiation, the builder could have said no and I could have decided not to buy his house. As the buyer I'm in the drivers seat trust me on this. No way I'm paying full retail for my upgraded toilets, sinks, lights, cabinets, etc. the builder doesn't pay full retail why should I? Hey (channeling Duck Dynasty) the suppliers are lucky I didn't beat them down further on price or cut them out of the deal altogether and go with somebody else, they got off light. Yeah and I cut realtors out of my side of the deal too and the builder and I split the money we saved on the commission :thumbsup:

 

[deathtoblackberries]

Scooter I put up many thousands of dollars in non-refundable earnest money to cover the cost of the upgrades hence no risk to the builder, the negotiation was not all one sided. :thumbsup: Now back on topic PClausen's house, looking over his costs I don't see much that sticks out as questionable other than the flooring which for a 1500 sqft house seems high and the added garage, the $5,500 my builder charges for a third garage which is on his list of standard upgrades includes a poured concrete foundation, concrete floor and a 20 foot concrete pad in the front. But then I can build a bigger, better house than mine in Reno, NV for quite a bit less than I paid and you can't touch a house like mine in NJ for this price so its all relative to local market.

 

[mkane09]

How did you go about choosing this particular builder mkane09?

Are you ready for this, Jay? I'm a physical therapist and he was a patient of mine. He was a well known builder in the area and had built a spec home and showed that to us. We were thrilled. We agreed to a price with very few changes from the spec home, most importantly mirroring the plans for our lot. So, day one, the basement was dug backwards. Along the way, he put 7/16" sheathing on the roof although it was clearly spec'd at 5/8" on the plans. He tried to change heat/air units from specs. The roof was shingled in November (Toledo, OH) and had to be re-shingled 3 times before they actually stuck to the roof. About 4 weeks after we moved in, I awoke to a giant sinkhole in the back yard where they had just dug a big hole and buried all the scraps, spare materials, trash, and clearings from the lot. Within three (3) years, the basement developed a MAJOR crack and the wood windows rotted out. Thankfully, by then I was divorced and it was no longer my problem.

mkane09

 

[pclausen]

Day 72

Appreciate the lively conversation regarding cost. As I have stated, these guys seem very honest from everything I can tell, so I think the cost in the end will be an honest representation of their cost plus a reasonable markup. There are builders in this area that a MUCH MUCH more expensive.

Block wall is almost done!

The builder didn't get any cap blocks, so the last row will have to wait until tomorrow.

Some shots from inside the "courtyard"

There are no expansion joints between the hardy planks.

Shot from when I left. He got in another row or two since I took the first pic. It is just this one guy doing the blocks. He's also the one that will be doing the stone veneer. He estimate it will take him about 2 weeks to do it all, including the chimney.

I think it will be time to get the dumpster emptied soon. It appears to be a hair above the fill line already

Tomorrow they will complete the rough grading and presumably put in the downspout drain pipes at the same time.

 

[ShaneG]

Most fiber cement siding companies installation instructions require all field joints be butted snug and a 1/8" gap around the perimeter at locations such as windows, doors, and corners for expansion. There also needs to be some type of flashing behind the field joints. I can't tell about the flashing, but from your picture it looks like the field joint is too large. You might want to investigate further.

 

[J F]

Are you ready for this, Jay? ...

Thankfully, by then I was divorced and it was no longer my problem.

mkane09

Glad it ended well for you. :laughing:

And I'll try to stay on track now, Paul.

 

[wmonroe]

Very nice! It's going to look great when they get the stone on.

 

[pacerron]

Ok time for me to chime in again.
A discount a builder gets is just that a discount a builder/contractor gets. In no way does it need to be passed onto the homeowner. If the builders wants to pass the savings onto the owner that is his choice. In no way is that discount for a homeowner and in no way should a homeowner think they should get that discount.
If you have issues with what the builder is charging for items, the time to bring that up is before the work on those items is started. If you agree to have him do the work at prices he gives you in advance at no point should you ask for a refund or discount once the work is completed. It comes down to the fact if you are happy with his work and you agree to pay what he charges you should both be happy. I would not wait until the end and say "wait a minute that price is high" sorry its just wrong to do so. Anyone in the business would agree. Enjoy the build

BML
At the time of your chiming in again, no one had said anything about asking the builder to return part of his discount. That was your idea in your above quote.
What I said was: "Another thing to realize is that your contractor, more than likely, gets a percentage discount or credit to future purchases from the suppliers that he regularly uses for material compared to the retail pricing that you are paying or using in your calculations. So when using a percentage, the higher the price of a material the more discount in real dollars."
All that is saying is that if the home buyer ask for an upgrade on a $40 water closet that the builder saves $4 on to a $300 water closet that the builder saves $30 on which the labor cost to install is the same, then the builder is making $26 dollars more than he originally agreed to on the deal. Everyone knows it is a make some lose some proposition on both the material and labor when building a house and in the end it might all even out or someone could come out way ahead. The prime contractor might not make anything in the end after paying the subs. But with the size of this company and other ventures they are in too, you can figure they are doing all right, on the average.
You are right about the extra charges being agreed upon before the work is done. In many jurisdictions a grunt, nodding of a head, a handshake,
or the failure to object to an added price in writing before the additional work is started signifies a legal contract. It is just could be hard to prove and become very expensive for both parties to a third party if it is not in writing and signed and dated.
Now is not really the time to start fussing about prices on things already agreed too. With only 3 weeks to go, the quality of the remaining work to be done may suffer in any case. I said at the beginning of this project that speed is often not a friend to quality craftsmanship.
I think in the end both parties will come to a reasonable agreement. It certainly would not be to anyone's benefit to get ripped off with as much publicity as this project and contractor is getting on the www.
Ron