Business plans for Mulching

[AlanB]

I am not a mulcher, but do have a lawncare and landscaping business.

You are responsible if you damage something, I doubt you would have any customers that would waiver that. You will have some that will want to blame you for things you did not even do...

Usually do not have them sign that they are responsible for the property, that is usually not the issue, but the issue that comes up more for us and it ties into your third question, is make darn sure that the person you are dealing with is the person that will be financially responsible to you. The scenario I see is a Realtor having you clear something, then saying the owner was going to pay you.... BTDT, it is NO FUN. Make it clear, if the realtor wants it done, the realtor pays you and collects the money back from the owner.

Yes, we take a deposit. Usually half, particularly landscaping. Nothing quite like buying $5000 worth of plants, and having the folks call you the night before saying they decided to do it themselves....

This year, Hanna has started charging an "appointment" deposit. About $100. She is currently scheduling about a month out, she gets the deposit of half at about a week out (just before buying the plants, which is what that money goes towards) but anyway, what happened multiple times last year is folks would schedule, then wait 3 weeks or so, then decide we were taking too long to get to them (even though we gave them a date when it started) and then back out, that then left our scheduling in chaos. We had also lost business because if we had backed thier job out of the schedule, we could have gotten to the other customer sooner, and they would have went with us instead of looking further for someone to do it quicker.

No experience yet with the "appointment deposit" but it is something to think about, it will help to cover your investment of time and gas, and the other jobs you missed when someone backs out on you.

One other thing to watch for is the "multiple estimate" guy. With the price of gas now, we are having to curtail the number of visits to someone's place to estimate. I bet you will find that with mulching as well. Come out, give them a price, then they want you to come out, give them a different price because they dont want this but want that,, and so on.

After the second or third time we just tell them we cannot afford to drive just to their place and we will have to swing by when we are in the area. Some folks will shop you to death if you let them.

 

[BucketHoe]

dive2diver,

It has been 3 months since this thread started so I don't have a clue on whether you are going through with your plan, have gone through with it, or given up, but after reading the majority of this thread I have a few thoughts.

1.) kmdigital is not far off. I realize that this type of equipment is the type that is trying to self destruct every minute that it is running, and it would be nice to have a shiny new machine, but I would consider a nice reconditioned machine from a reputable dealer before strapping myself to a payment like a new machine would warrant.

2.) Remember, you plan on doing this part time, but the payment for a new machine is full time.

3.) Truck and Trailer. Keep in mind that in any given day, you will use a truck and trailer an hour or two if that. Sure it would be nice to have a truck with your name on it, but consider the expense. Buying the truck and trailer, registering, licensing, insurance, taxes, maintenance, fuel, tires, and on and on. I would venture to guess that within 20 miles of where you are located there are 50 people or companies that are in the excavation business or some other business that requires that they own trucks and low bed trailers up to 50 ton capacity with CDL licensed drivers. These trucks and trailers often sit idle and any number of them would be happy to move your machine around for you when you need it moved for a reasonable charge.

4.) Beware of the Pie In The Sky. I don't recall if it was you or someone else that posted about the surveyor that said "To drop off your information after you get set up". Notice this guy wants you to get yourself 100k in debt first and then he so graciously wants you to drop off a business card. Talk is cheap, if he is serious about providing you with work, tell him you need a commitment from him first. You'll probably see real quick how little potential work this surveyor has.

These are just a few thoughts, I have others but I'll shut up for now.

Good luck in your decision.

BucketHoe

 

[MarkStewart]

Rubber track skid steer ASV with fecon forestry mower, stump grinder Seen this on CL. Seems like a decent price for equipment.

 

[Mark One]

Thank You all for your advice and comments. Here is my logic for my questions:

For clarification I am not yet the proud owner of any mulching equipment but am very close to buying either the Fecon FTX 90, the comparable Rayco, an ASV or John Deere with the Fecon head. In the litigous society that we live in today I want to make sure that I protect myself from misfortune because of someone elses oversight.

Scenario A- A property owner hires you to clear the thick overgrown area around his house. Even though you ask he forgets to mention the well head is in the overgrown area that you cannot see or walk through and you mulch it level with the ground. Who Pays?? Is this the contractors negligence?? I see where explicit language in a contract could eliminate this question.

Scenario B- You get hired to clear trees on a property. After the job is done the property owner shows up claiming the tenant that hired you had no rights to clear the land. He wants reimbursement for his trees. Who Pays?? Again, I see where simple language could define who is responsible.

Scenario C- (As mentioned previously) You get hired to clear land and while you are working the person who hired you disapears. Who Pays? At least with a deposit you have some of your costs covered. How much information do you get from a client and how far do you chase them for your money?? You cannot be on the job and in court at the same time.

Last but not least, Most other machinery related contractors charge a "mobilazition fee" to cover the expense of moving equipment to a job site that cannot drive itself. I was curious as to opinions as to whether this should be quoted as a seperate expense or factored into the total cost of the job? It is a true expense whether a truck/trailer is contractor owned or a hauler is hired. In my case, I already own both a dump truck and a Super Duty P/U that both pull a 9 Ton Trailer that is used on my farm to move a backhoe. I am trying to make the best decision on how to factor in the expense of their use.

All of these are questions that will both help me and possibly inspire thinking from those of you who are already in this business. I dont want to run business away by lawyering but I have worked to hard to expose myself to issues like these that are very likely to occur with no clarity spelled out.

Thanks for reading this and I welcome all feedback.

Mark

 

[AlanB]

Sometimes, in the lawncare field, especially with sprinkler irrigation systems (not much in our area) it is a requirement on the homeowner to flag the sprinkler heads. Maybe that would be similar to the well head idea. Even then from what I understand, it can be ugly when an unmarked one gets damaged.

You will get blamed for whatever get's damaged, and depending upon it's value will depend upon how much the HO wants to push the issue.

Scenario B would be tough, but yes, I think that could be cleared up in simple language. I don't think that will occur with us in the landcaping business as pretty much everyone percieves what we do as value improvement, and I think 95% of yours would be the same, but I can see the scenario where you chop out the overgrown trees the landowner called a tree farm

Chasing money, and amount for deposits is always a tough one. Our deposits generally cover what we have in hard costs, how much cash I have to outlay to do that job, gas money, plant money, materials cost etc. No, we don't figure this too the penny, just a rough idea that WHEN you get burned, at least you are primarily only burned on your time, you did not PAY to work for someone else.
I would figure out what my "mobilization fee" was, and add in expenses for the mulcher to do the job including it's hourly rate (machine costs) and that would probably be my deposit. Not sure how much margin you will have for salary and profit, but I would think in the neighborhood of half.

How far do you chase after money.... good question. Constant one on the landscape boards as well. As a rule, I would say that it has to be worth my time. I cannot eat principles. One of the best things we did once was handed over several checks to a collection agency that was new and hungry. To be honest, at that point I never expected to get any money out of it, that became a principal thing, and just wanted the HO to pay. I think I got 1/3 or something, and felt like that was gravy.
You will have a lot of folks saying "take them to small claims court" and while it sounds good sitting and talking about it, the reality is so far, we have not found it worthwhile. Our numbers are too small to make it pay out when you figure in court costs, your time, and the fact that it is not like the judge reaches in and takes their money and gives it too you. All you have is a judgement against them, then you have to start the pursuit of the actual cash, to collect on the judgement. Easier said then done with folks that are crooks from the start.

Bottom line though, if you are out there in that machine, and tear something up, folks are going to hold you liable, as you are the "professional" in that instance. Unfortunately most courts will back them up as well.

Edit, we do not charge a "mobility charge"
most folks do not want to deal with a complicated bill, the question you will be asked is "what will it cost me to get this cleared" Most folks do not want to hear the breakdowns, they want the bottom number.

My advice, know that number in your head, and figure it into your cost. It should be the base price to fire off the machine IMO and then add for additional travel distances from there.

Now if you are speaking of long distance work, like you would drive to another state, I think that would be a whole different ball of wax.

 

[Willis Fecon Bushhogging]

Hello Guys,

I am new to this forum and am starting to get an idea in my head about starting up this kind of business in my local area (Eastern North Carolina). I am trying to start to plan the beginning stages here's want I do know I would like to buy the ASV RC-100 foresty package this much I do know, I am looking at right about $60,000 for this setup, please correct me if I am wrong this why I am asking questions here. I currently have a F-150 so I will have to upgrade this area, possibly to a F-250/ Diesel or Dodge, I would probley be looking a using a gooseneck trailer for this setup. I have not contacted a dealer yet for the ASV but I know there is one in Greenville, North Carolina. I need to know some of the other things to think about, I know I need to look at Insurance (amount of coverage ?), Pricing PPH or amount on land Acre size/ flat rate? Do you charge min time amount, or how about driving time to the job site. I have already talked with one local landscaper and stated it would very easy in this area to make $14,000 for clearing a lot for a mobile home, I think that might be really high end but I am unsure. We have a lot of forest and tons of under growth here so may be possible. For the owners of the ASV RC-100 package how long does it take clear an area? I know this is long winded and more questions may come to mind later but any advice would very helpful and thankful.

Hi Diver, I live just a few miles from you, I know this is an old thread you posted, but I was just checking in to see if you made the big step yet. We do land clearing, site prep, hauling, septic system installation and repair. I just bought a Fecon FTX90L, steel tracks, forestry package, pressurized cab. My research showed that the guys in our area with the skidsteers with a add on head, were having lots of trouble. Rubber tracks, undercarriage, getting stuck (no winch) Hyd lines torn off, knocking holes in fuel tank (no forestry protection package) Well that enough for now, you probrably are in business now making them big bucks. Give me a reply if you made the jump and maybe we can do some jobs together

 

[Willis Fecon Bushhogging]

Thank You all for the advice and comments. I will be making a decision within a couple of weeks and will stay tuned here. I have studied this business, the variety of equipment and have compiled what I believe is a thorough business model. I am definately getting in as there are only a couple of other guys into it within a 100 miles and all are steady at $200+ per/hr. I feel confident the work is there and that with careful decisions and aggressive maintenance I can profit at that rate. The next step is the "Big One" in writing the check.

One thing that really sealed my deal was mentioned earlier by someone else. My wife is 100% ready to get this moving. We did a demo on our farm with the FTX 90 and she ran the machine most of the time. This will help greatly having her committed to the cash outlay and willing to share in the work.

I will be glad to share any of my research with anyone who it may help. I have a couple of other questions. Are any of you marketing your business through a web site with video of your work and before & after pics? What advertising has gotten you the best results?

Thanks Again
Mark

what did you think of the Fecon 90?

 

[Willis Fecon Bushhogging]

By the way I have a mechincal background with cars and aircraft engine so some maintance can and would be done by me. especially if I could get a hold of some manals.

could your name be Red and work or used to work on Harriers? If so we used to work together

 

[Tri-Cut]

Willis where are you from? Diver did you get into buisness I'm new on here and saw your post. Most of the guys in this area are 125/hour I know of one that charges 150 but he is a surveyor and its done in a package deal in one of the big waterfront communities.

 

[TMTS]

Tri-cut's rates are what I've been working with for the last few years...130 is my base, and depending on distance from home, rocks, etc, I'll go up to 150 or more per hour. I have done a few by the acre, but its got to be all similar terrain and well delineated...I've often thought about getting a GPS that does area calculations so I can compare the per acre to per hour...but nothing to date...

my two cents...

-TMTS