Busted by the game warden I was....
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Birdhunter1
Veteran Member
Well in IL game wardens can enter any and all lands and waters in enforcement of the law. it goes back to the days in the old country when all the game belonged to the king therefore it was within his powers to enter anyhwhere his game was sought to be.
But game wardens you will find do not "abuse" this power by entering houses in search of game and finding drugs or wahtever instead, and believe me they are asked many time sby law enforcement who do not have "any and all lands and waters" powers. But game wardens know that the power is borderline and is argued and debated each side up and down, so they are very eased on how they enter lands and waters that are privately owned.
But they do have all the power in the world to come on your property and check your license while you are hunting, and I see nothgin wrong with that.
That being said I have a .45 Colt pistol that was bought to ride on the fender of a tractor for coyotes and whatever else needs shot, and several have been shot right off the seat!
But game wardens you will find do not "abuse" this power by entering houses in search of game and finding drugs or wahtever instead, and believe me they are asked many time sby law enforcement who do not have "any and all lands and waters" powers. But game wardens know that the power is borderline and is argued and debated each side up and down, so they are very eased on how they enter lands and waters that are privately owned.
But they do have all the power in the world to come on your property and check your license while you are hunting, and I see nothgin wrong with that.
That being said I have a .45 Colt pistol that was bought to ride on the fender of a tractor for coyotes and whatever else needs shot, and several have been shot right off the seat!
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> come on your property and check your license while you are hunting, </font> )</font>
In WVa if you are a resident landowner, resident family member or tennant of such land you do not need a license to hunt on your own land.
In WVa if you are a resident landowner, resident family member or tennant of such land you do not need a license to hunt on your own land.
MikeD74T
Veteran Member
By telling them no, they aren not allowd to enter your property, you have given them probable cause.
HGM Actually I have said no to law enforcement officers. An officer was harrassing a hunter that was using my property based on a complaint from a neighbor. He refused to believe the hunter had permission. I made it clear to the officer & the Chief of Police that they did not have permission to enforce the neighbor's bidding on my property. It was a civil discussion. Ultimately they pretty much told the neighbor to mind his own business or they would have to charge him with harrassment. NH has hunter harrassment statutes.
Generally speaking, if police don't need permission they won't ask - if they ask they need permission. Probable cause means a criminal violation has likely happened & usually results in an arrest - no arrest -no probably cause.
NH is very free with access to private property. General access for hunting, fishing, hiking is allowed by law unless verbally denied or specifically posted against by the land owner. None of my land is posted. Nor have I blanketly denied access.
NH is the 'live free or die' state because we don't give up our rights or liberties without overwhelming good reason.
HGM Actually I have said no to law enforcement officers. An officer was harrassing a hunter that was using my property based on a complaint from a neighbor. He refused to believe the hunter had permission. I made it clear to the officer & the Chief of Police that they did not have permission to enforce the neighbor's bidding on my property. It was a civil discussion. Ultimately they pretty much told the neighbor to mind his own business or they would have to charge him with harrassment. NH has hunter harrassment statutes.
Generally speaking, if police don't need permission they won't ask - if they ask they need permission. Probable cause means a criminal violation has likely happened & usually results in an arrest - no arrest -no probably cause.
NH is very free with access to private property. General access for hunting, fishing, hiking is allowed by law unless verbally denied or specifically posted against by the land owner. None of my land is posted. Nor have I blanketly denied access.
NH is the 'live free or die' state because we don't give up our rights or liberties without overwhelming good reason.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ultimately they pretty much told the neighbor to mind his own business or they would have to charge him with harrassment. NH has hunter harrassment statutes.
Generally speaking, if police don't need permission they won't ask - if they ask they need permission. Probable cause means a criminal violation has likely happened & usually results in an arrest - no arrest -no probably cause.
NH is very free with access to private property. General access for hunting, fishing, hiking is allowed by law unless verbally denied or specifically posted against by the land owner. None of my land is posted. Nor have I blanketly denied access.
NH is the 'live free or die' state because we don't give up our rights or liberties without overwhelming good reason. )</font>
No argument there, I understand the idea and agree that you must stand for your rights. I would do the same. Although, if an officer wanted to check things out on my property, I would let him. I'm doing nothing wrong, he wont find anything.. I can think of many other ways to have my rights infringed on then to have a LEO walking my property. If anything, it would send the message to trespassers that someone is watching. To each is own, personally I have bigger things to worry about. I always try to keep good relations with the law, makes life allot easier.
Even the local law in the neighboring town will drop in and say hi. Sometimes they will jokingly flash the lights when behind me, just to say hey /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif... Their being freindy, I dont mind.. If I have trouble, I know that I can call them, their not even in my county.. Plus, when folks drive by and see me talking with them in my front yard they are less likely to cause trouble. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Like I said, not a big deal to me.. If they got the GOD complex and tried to push things, my hospitality would change quickly....I dont see that happening though..
Generally speaking, if police don't need permission they won't ask - if they ask they need permission. Probable cause means a criminal violation has likely happened & usually results in an arrest - no arrest -no probably cause.
NH is very free with access to private property. General access for hunting, fishing, hiking is allowed by law unless verbally denied or specifically posted against by the land owner. None of my land is posted. Nor have I blanketly denied access.
NH is the 'live free or die' state because we don't give up our rights or liberties without overwhelming good reason. )</font>
No argument there, I understand the idea and agree that you must stand for your rights. I would do the same. Although, if an officer wanted to check things out on my property, I would let him. I'm doing nothing wrong, he wont find anything.. I can think of many other ways to have my rights infringed on then to have a LEO walking my property. If anything, it would send the message to trespassers that someone is watching. To each is own, personally I have bigger things to worry about. I always try to keep good relations with the law, makes life allot easier.
Even the local law in the neighboring town will drop in and say hi. Sometimes they will jokingly flash the lights when behind me, just to say hey /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif... Their being freindy, I dont mind.. If I have trouble, I know that I can call them, their not even in my county.. Plus, when folks drive by and see me talking with them in my front yard they are less likely to cause trouble. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Like I said, not a big deal to me.. If they got the GOD complex and tried to push things, my hospitality would change quickly....I dont see that happening though..
MikeD74T
Veteran Member
After my post a few minutes ago I searched the NH Revised Statues. In NH we have permissive law - the law defines what government can do. If it isn't listed they can't do it. Interestingly enough, the only public officials that can enter a private property without probable cause and not subsequently be liable for trespass are the local public health officer and the state veternarian, both looking for public health/wildlife health issues.
Just for the record, if a LEO asked nicely I'd allow access. I do have a good rapport with local LEOs.
Just for the record, if a LEO asked nicely I'd allow access. I do have a good rapport with local LEOs.
Bird
Rest in Peace
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Probable cause means a criminal violation has likely happened & usually results in an arrest - no arrest -no probably cause. )</font>
Uh . . well, sort of. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif There can be cases of "probable cause" sufficient for a search warrant, and yet nothing found during the search to justify an arrest; i.e., "no arrest" does not necessarily mean there was no "probably cause."
About as good a definition as I know of can be found here. Of course, court decisions sometimes change definitions. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Uh . . well, sort of. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif There can be cases of "probable cause" sufficient for a search warrant, and yet nothing found during the search to justify an arrest; i.e., "no arrest" does not necessarily mean there was no "probably cause."
About as good a definition as I know of can be found here. Of course, court decisions sometimes change definitions. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I grew up in California and have hunted most of the western states at one time or another. I've met game wardens in quite a few states, but mostly CA.
Except for one guy in particular, I've always had good results from my encounters. I've been given warnings for different things that I was borderline on, but never issued a ticket. I'm always polite and courtious, so I'm sure that helps.
Probably the place I've ran into wardens more than any other is the public marshes out duck hunting. They will sit on a levy and suprise you at 3 in the morning while heading out to your blind. They count shells, check for lead and stamps. Most of my friends have been busted for one or more violations. It seems the more of an attitude you have, the more violations you get. Just my observation.
The one warden that stands out from all the others was in California about five years ago. My friend had some land surrounded by park land. He had an easment to cross the park land to access his land, but the general public was not allowed to drive through the park.
He liked to bring his dates up to the tops of the hills of his land and show them the city lights at night from his land.
This particular warden had pulled us over numerous times and searched our vehicles, weapons and licenses. Twice he had helicopters come in for support and land on us. Guns drawn and the whole routine, only for them to leave and apologize to us. It was a harrassment problem that we sort of dealt with by staying legal at all times. He never got us for a single thing until the last time.
He was in his personal car with his wife, out of uniform in the park when he confronted my buddy driving through the park late in the evening. After searching his vehicle and harrassing him and his date, he wrote him a tresspassing ticket.
My buddy took it to court, where his lawyer was able to prove that the warden was off duty, had been drinking and was harrassing my friend without reason or cause.
The ticket was dismissed. The game warden was suspended and relocated. He was still a warden from what his replacement told us, but his carreer was pretty much ruined by the incident.
The new warden checked us out once to see who we were more than anything else. We never saw another warden on their land again after that.
Eddie
Except for one guy in particular, I've always had good results from my encounters. I've been given warnings for different things that I was borderline on, but never issued a ticket. I'm always polite and courtious, so I'm sure that helps.
Probably the place I've ran into wardens more than any other is the public marshes out duck hunting. They will sit on a levy and suprise you at 3 in the morning while heading out to your blind. They count shells, check for lead and stamps. Most of my friends have been busted for one or more violations. It seems the more of an attitude you have, the more violations you get. Just my observation.
The one warden that stands out from all the others was in California about five years ago. My friend had some land surrounded by park land. He had an easment to cross the park land to access his land, but the general public was not allowed to drive through the park.
He liked to bring his dates up to the tops of the hills of his land and show them the city lights at night from his land.
This particular warden had pulled us over numerous times and searched our vehicles, weapons and licenses. Twice he had helicopters come in for support and land on us. Guns drawn and the whole routine, only for them to leave and apologize to us. It was a harrassment problem that we sort of dealt with by staying legal at all times. He never got us for a single thing until the last time.
He was in his personal car with his wife, out of uniform in the park when he confronted my buddy driving through the park late in the evening. After searching his vehicle and harrassing him and his date, he wrote him a tresspassing ticket.
My buddy took it to court, where his lawyer was able to prove that the warden was off duty, had been drinking and was harrassing my friend without reason or cause.
The ticket was dismissed. The game warden was suspended and relocated. He was still a warden from what his replacement told us, but his carreer was pretty much ruined by the incident.
The new warden checked us out once to see who we were more than anything else. We never saw another warden on their land again after that.
Eddie
Bird
Rest in Peace
Yep, Eddie, game wardens, like all law enforcement officers, are human so attitude does make a difference (I know . . some say it shouldn't). A confrontational attitude just makes an officer wonder what you're trying to hide, so he/she will look a little more carefully for violations. But of course, since the only applicants are human, I suspect nearly every law enforcement agency has had some at one time or another that were "badge heavy" and usually they don't last long, although I guess whatever time they do last is too long.
The last I knew, half the game wardens in Texas are stationed along the coast. So I've had one stop to visit while I was fishing and didn't ask to see my license, I've had two check my license, and I had one run up alongside my boat, started to ask, "Do you have life jackets . . . Oh, I see'em", hit the throttle on his boat and took off. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
My younger brothers, and lots of other teenagers, used to complain about the police stopping and searching them and their cars at night. I worked nights for several years, was out at all hours of the night, and don't know how many times I was stopped, but I was never searched; undoubtedly because I was courteous to the officers, they were courteous to me, and I wouldn't have cared if they did want to search the car. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The last I knew, half the game wardens in Texas are stationed along the coast. So I've had one stop to visit while I was fishing and didn't ask to see my license, I've had two check my license, and I had one run up alongside my boat, started to ask, "Do you have life jackets . . . Oh, I see'em", hit the throttle on his boat and took off. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
My younger brothers, and lots of other teenagers, used to complain about the police stopping and searching them and their cars at night. I worked nights for several years, was out at all hours of the night, and don't know how many times I was stopped, but I was never searched; undoubtedly because I was courteous to the officers, they were courteous to me, and I wouldn't have cared if they did want to search the car. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
MikeD74T
Veteran Member
I agree, which is why I used "likely" and "usually'. To obtain a warrant the officer must be able to substanciate his belief that a crime occurred. Likewise to enter one's property the officer must state which crime he believes has ocurred and must later be able to defend his position whether or not an arrest was made. Unfortunately in tpost's case the subsequent citations/convictions backed the officer's belief.
NH has laws regarding "taking game from vehicles" and has a permit process to allow handicapped hunters to hunt from stationary vehicles. We also have specific prohibition from carrying loaded firearms (regardless of purposes) on/in moving motorized vehicles of any type on public or private property. Law enforcement on duty and concealed carry permitees (handguns only) are the only exclusions. However an officer would have a hard time convicting someone for target practicing on one's own property from the back of a truck.
NH has laws regarding "taking game from vehicles" and has a permit process to allow handicapped hunters to hunt from stationary vehicles. We also have specific prohibition from carrying loaded firearms (regardless of purposes) on/in moving motorized vehicles of any type on public or private property. Law enforcement on duty and concealed carry permitees (handguns only) are the only exclusions. However an officer would have a hard time convicting someone for target practicing on one's own property from the back of a truck.
