Buyer's Group

[mrbobcat]

1500 in lieu of 0% for is the current program

 

[theoshin]

this question is in no way inflammatory but here it goes. i am all for a good price - that is what our free market economy is built on; however, how do you all feel your local dealer is going to react when you call for a war. issue or for service? i get the feeling the bobcat dealers are pretty territorial and may make things difficult for non-local buyers. i would feel ok buying an attachment as they are less likely to break in the first year, but a new model tc with all its engineering would make me pretty nervous.
tough call.

ts

 

[jmfox]

Most likely the same reason the closest dealer will not give you a fair price, will be the same reason they will do warranty work on a machine they did not sell. Warranty work is a source of income, or should be in a well run shop. Sure they can go to bat for you if the manufacturer is trying to deny a claim, but in the end the dealer will benefit as well. Frankly, I would not buy a toolcat at the convenient store price, so it is not a question of buying from the closest dealer as it is buying one at all. By purchasing a machine with or without their help, at least they, as the most convenient authorized warranty repair shop, will be able to make money on warranty repairs and attachments, which they otherwise would not.

jmf

 

[panther1400]

Exactly, thank you.

 

[theoshin]

that all makes sense. the reason i paid a bit more and went with the dealer 25 miles away was for the speed of service. i sold my tractor and depend on my machine to clean my driveway after snowfalls. they made it very clear to me that if i bought the tc from them my name would always be ahead of any non-local buyers for repair work. for example - they delivered my snowblower and the couplers were backwards. i did not have time to fix them. they came the next day (saturday) on a holiday and corrected the problem. the salesman even offered to drive down that day after work to fix it personally. i think that is why businesses are more dependent on their dealers than you would be. if that is not worth the extra money, then by all means find the best price. i just can't figure out how a dealer could sell the new tc and basically throw in a $5,000 attachement for no cost when compared to all other dealers. is there really that much markup on the tc?
thx,
ts

 

[jmfox]

To get back on the closest dealer's Christmas list, if they are as you describe them, you can always give them the money you saved by buying the same exact machine from another dealer. It may be a fact of life, but there is just something wrong about prioritizing warranty repairs based on the amount of profit made on the initial sale. If this is true, then warranty work becomes nothing more than prepaid services.

jmf

 

[theoshin]

i believe it is. any service company is going to treat repeat custumers better than non-customers. when i had a problem with our new toyota the owner of the dealership personally called me and went on a ride with me to let me show him my concerns. they bent over backwards to fix it as i and my family are repeat customers. i come from a family who has been involved with heavy road/airport construction/demolition for over 50 yrs (as owners with up to 350 employees) and the advice i received from both my father and grandfather was to pick the dealer with the best service. problem is that the local dealer may not want to deal on the price. 40g with a 5-6000 attachment thrown in does not leave much profit. i didn't want to be left with my pants down, so to speak, when it snows 12 inches and i need to get to work, so i picked the local, well respected bobcat dealer. i felt a good relationship was important even after the waran as construction equipment is bound to need repairs if used for work. i am not saying you should not pursue your goal of a better price, just stating it may make things more difficult with the local dealer. my advice would be to present your options to the local dealer and see what response you get. if they blow you off, then they are out of a sale.

another example - the local dealer is going to let me use their brushcat for a weekend to see how i like it at no cost. yes, i could have rented one, but they are going to deliver and pick it up too. obviously, they want me to buy a new one.

any idea what discount you could receive on attachments?

good luck,
ts

 

[jmfox]

It sounds like you're the lucky one to be happy with the girl next door. For me, I would have a problem with a dealer who considers warranty work as any other repair chargable to the owner, rather than a defect chargable to the manufacturer.

jmf

 

[theoshin]

i guess what i am trying to say is that in the real world, imho, it is going to be hard to find that "ideal" dealership who would treat you the same if you bought your equipment elsewhere or not.

ts

 

[jmfox]

I don't think that first come first serve is an ideal, it's just good business.

jmf

 

[jgl1962]

As an equipment salesman this thread is very interesting to me. My company is in business to make reasonable profit in every department. sales, parts, service and rental.

I have no problem being "kept honest" by people shopping around for prices and using the web for research. After all that research is done, if I am greedy enough to lose a deal to an out of town dealer for more than say $1500.00 difference, shame on me. That guy can count on being treated almost as well as my real customers.

If they should take that sweet deal from the out of town dealer for less that that difference, they are going to be encouraged to hop in their pickup (hope they have one...and a trailer) and look to the selling dealer for warranty work.
And all their parts that they can't get at NAPA too. I'll deal with the fallout from the manufacturer.

Because we make a reasonable profit in all areas of our business, we are able to provide our REAL customers with: Free loaners during the warranty period, $100/week rentals if your machine is in our shop out of warranty, help with trucking or loaned trailers if possible, seven trained techs with equipped stocked service trucks and I make every effort to help out delivery parts in emergencies.

In 12 plus years I've only had to spell this out like I just did to a handfull of people, in most cases if I've done a good job selling the product, myself and the dealership the issue takes care of itself.

One guy who I actually had to put it to just like I've just written has bought 3 machines from me since (he still keeps me honest).

The couple who bought out of town are still treated like rotting fish. We've got our own customers to take care of.

 

[dsb5610]

As an equipment salesman this thread is very interesting to me. My company is in business to make reasonable profit in every department. sales, parts, service and rental.

I have no problem being "kept honest" by people shopping around for prices and using the web for research. After all that research is done, if I am greedy enough to lose a deal to an out of town dealer for more than say $1500.00 difference, shame on me. That guy can count on being treated almost as well as my real customers.

If they should take that sweet deal from the out of town dealer for less that that difference, they are going to be encouraged to hop in their pickup (hope they have one...and a trailer) and look to the selling dealer for warranty work.
And all their parts that they can't get at NAPA too. I'll deal with the fallout from the manufacturer.

Because we make a reasonable profit in all areas of our business, we are able to provide our REAL customers with: Free loaners during the warranty period, $100/week rentals if your machine is in our shop out of warranty, help with trucking or loaned trailers if possible, seven trained techs with equipped stocked service trucks and I make every effort to help out delivery parts in emergencies.

In 12 plus years I've only had to spell this out like I just did to a handfull of people, in most cases if I've done a good job selling the product, myself and the dealership the issue takes care of itself.

One guy who I actually had to put it to just like I've just written has bought 3 machines from me since (he still keeps me honest).

The couple who bought out of town are still treated like rotting fish. We've got our own customers to take care of.

I see different ways to look at this. If my equipment were used to generate income I imagine I would be willing to pay a premium up front to get loaners, rentals, hauling, etc or I would spend more money to have a backup. I recognize there is a need for that as well as a cost associated with it. My equipment is not used to generate income and paying more up front to get those benefits is not important to me.

Nothing I buy will make or break any dealer. I deal with 3 Deere dealers, one of which is now also a Bobcat dealer (and I'm just tickled about that). Most of my new purchases have been from one of these dealers but a different dealer is where I do virtually all of my parts purchases. They've asked me on occassion where I purchased the equipment so I tell them where and why. I can't think of one occassion where any one of them did not treat me with respect. I realize where their bread and butter comes from and always try to do the same to them. If I am at the counter and someone walks up with a broken part from a piece of AG equipment I step aside.

dsb

 

[panther1400]

I farm and sell farm chemicals for a company called Farm Advantage, the reason I got started with this company is because no matter how much you buy, big farmer against little farmer, or does the guy who has coffee in the elevator every day gets treated better or gets a better price this company has just one price.
When the salesmen says, he keeps me honest by checking around, sounds like there are different prices for different people depending on how many new machines you buy or how good of friends they might be or how good of a wheeler dealer you are.
If dealers want to make a profit make "x"% for everyone, not how the situation fits.
I am very lucky to have two dealers close to me that gave me silmilar low prices, but neither of them are closing there doors for selling things too cheap, and the dealer is happy for my business and my warrenty work. If I need a replacement machine I rent it, the dealer doesn't jack my price up thinking he might have to give me a machine for free IF I need my machine worked on.
Is there no money to be made on shop work and selling parts?

 

[panther1400]

I don't want to upset anyone with my opinion, or that I like the lowest price I can get and rent a machine if I have to have one while mine is being worked on. Its just what I am used to, in farming, no matter if I buy a truck or piece of machinery from an auction or another dealer my local dealers have always been willing to work on my stuff and sell me parts.

 

[jgl1962]

Guy's good comments here I think. I may have erred by throwing a number out there.Nobody pays a premium to deal with us. In fact I have a flaw in me that almost never allows me to sell something at full list price, even when I could get away with it.

In fact as I mentioned I rarely find myself in the position to worry about all this.

We are not the highest or the lowest priced place around.

This is probably a whole different thread. Out of curiosity what profit do you feel is acceptable for a dealer to make on say a $40,000 peice of equipment.
Don't read any attitude into this, it will make for interesting discussion.

 

[jmfox]

True for me as well. When I buy a new machine I'm really not thinking about it falling apart. Replacement rentals and warranty work should not be anticipated with well-made products, they are the exception. Even if it were the rule to expect defects, I would not want my situation to be dependent on how much money I threw at the local dealer on purchase. If Bobcat forgets to weld a couple of spots and the machine breaks in half I would expect to be compensated pursuant to a written agreement rather than by some mystic arbitrary formula or dealers good grace. As far as I'm concerned, dealers who are capable of retaliatory behavior are in the same category as bullies and are not deserving of support. If I have to go to another state to avoid predatory dealers, I will. As to warranty repairs, they are the company's problem, not mine or the dealers.

jmf

 

[Bob999]

As an equipment salesman this thread is very interesting to me. My company is in business to make reasonable profit in every department. sales, parts, service and rental.

I have no problem being "kept honest" by people shopping around for prices and using the web for research. After all that research is done, if I am greedy enough to lose a deal to an out of town dealer for more than say $1500.00 difference, shame on me. That guy can count on being treated almost as well as my real customers.

If they should take that sweet deal from the out of town dealer for less that that difference, they are going to be encouraged to hop in their pickup (hope they have one...and a trailer) and look to the selling dealer for warranty work.
And all their parts that they can't get at NAPA too. I'll deal with the fallout from the manufacturer.

Because we make a reasonable profit in all areas of our business, we are able to provide our REAL customers with: Free loaners during the warranty period, $100/week rentals if your machine is in our shop out of warranty, help with trucking or loaned trailers if possible, seven trained techs with equipped stocked service trucks and I make every effort to help out delivery parts in emergencies.

In 12 plus years I've only had to spell this out like I just did to a handfull of people, in most cases if I've done a good job selling the product, myself and the dealership the issue takes care of itself.

One guy who I actually had to put it to just like I've just written has bought 3 machines from me since (he still keeps me honest).

The couple who bought out of town are still treated like rotting fish. We've got our own customers to take care of.

Seems to me there is a basic inconsistency in what you have written:

You assert that you make a "reasonable profit in every department. sales, parts, service and rental". If that is in fact true then why is it that you think a customer buying equipment should pay you $1500 more to buy it from you than another dealer and that if the customer does not pay the premium price to you that the customer should be "treated like rotting fish" if he comes to you for service or other business.

Seems to me that if in fact you price your goods and services in each area to make a reasonable profit then you should be pleased to get business in any department, notwithstanding where the customer purchased a machine.

 

[panther1400]

Guy's good comments here I think. I may have erred by throwing a number out there.Nobody pays a premium to deal with us. In fact I have a flaw in me that almost never allows me to sell something at full list price, even when I could get away with it.

In fact as I mentioned I rarely find myself in the position to worry about all this.

We are not the highest or the lowest priced place around.

This is probably a whole different thread. Out of curiosity what profit do you feel is acceptable for a dealer to make on say a $40,000 peice of equipment.
Don't read any attitude into this, it will make for interesting discussion.

Is 40,000 your cost, and are you asking for the profit you should make to place the order. Setup would be at the shop rate and rental would be at the rental rate, parts would be at parts price, trucking and so on?

 

[theoshin]

the problem in answering this question is that we don't really know what a bobcat dealer is paying for a loaded new c or d tc. i paid 39500 for a new c with a 68 inch mp bucket. others have quoted that price with a mower thrown in which is over 5000. any idea what the dealer is paying for the new d loaded with high flow, road package, etc???

 

[mrbobcat]

Some of know what a dealer pays for a 5600 , or any product for that matter. Cant sell it if you dont know what you paid for it(for very long any ways). I ,as a dealer, would like to hear what you think a "fair" profit margin is on a sale , not to throw stones , but just being curious.

There are 2 sides to this story , and i agree with a some of both sides. Some are just my opinion , and my opinion only.

So , what would be fair , chime in with a percentage over cost , or just a flat dollar amount. I dont think there is a right or wrong answer to this , just everybodys opinion.

Lets keep parts / service out of it for now , just flat gross profit on the sale of the machine and you never spend another penny with the dealer again.