Rat-
I guess the problem that I have is not with HST at all.
To parrot Cowboydoc:
<font color=red>If an hst works for a person that is great. If a gear tractor works that's great too. The only thing I take exception to is the constant talk that the hst is the only way to go and a person would be a fool to own a gear tractor. </font color=red>
My frustration is at the superiority complex (sometimes inadvertent) that a lot of the HST guys seem to portray. Basically I'm referring to tone/verbiage that some use - Just look back & re-read the posts. A lot of them, intended or not, come across as arrogant and condescending - just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Now, I'm not saying every HST person/post has been that way nor am I saying every "gear guy" is a saint. This is ALWAYS going to be a "holy war" issue, but, in the interest of civility, I'm just a bit disheartened how some folks follow the "Venetian blind" mentality to promote HST (e.g. make HST seem better by pulling down gear).
Am I "oversensitive"? maybe - maybe not. From my other posts, I think it's obvious I'm not the P.C. "can't we all just get along" type - but that being said, I don't think that's what I'm advocating here.
I'll go ahead and give some examples of what I see as this attitude based on your last post. Hopefully this will illustrate my point of how sometimes the HST guys don't come across as helpful/informative but something quite different.
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<font color=blue>so I should continue to discuss a topic with folks who really do not know what they are talking about, that would make me a politician. </font color=blue>
/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif So who here are you accusing of "not having a clue?" "Gear guys" - since they could never know because they don't have HST?
<font color=blue>It is not this particular thread to which I was addressing but rather a few months ago. </font color=blue>
/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif So you aren't talking about any responses in this thread then?
<font color=blue>While I never once read a person say "gears are for babies and backyard do it yourselfers" it was spewed forth from folks with the standard or geared view point regarding hydrostatic that it was obvious it was a waste of time trying to explain or rationalize with them. </font color=blue>
I can't comment on the thread you're referring to since I haven't read it.
But, it appears though that "gear guys" apparently "Spew" lots of irrational, nonsencical, crazy-talk, are a waste of you're time, and that you see no value in any of their comments. /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif
I'll admit, there are some jerky/irrational types out there, but I haven't seen that the majority of them drive a "stick shift" as implied.
<font color=blue>Interestingly, I seem to recall the comment being made by guys who bought tractors from manufacturers that don't even offer hydrostatic as an option.</font color=blue>
/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif So, now the implication is that unless you drive a "Name Brand" that offers HST, you are unqualified to comment or your opinion is obviously colored? No, nothing condescending/insulting about this comment.....
<font color=blue>I don't mind discussing the subject with folks with an open mind, I won't try to convince anyone to quickly run out and buy HST, nor will I tell them that gears are a crummy deal. </font color=blue>
To me at least, it hasn't really come across that way - basically a majority of HST folks imply, if not outright state, that HST is superior in every way from a functional perspective. There is also the common theme implied from folks who were once "gear" but have converted to HST that "boy - I'm sure a lot smarter now that I have an HST - Gear was too much work and had no advantages"
HST owners/converts may very well love HST- great!!! But, by continually stating the party line of how HST is superior in every way, then that in turn leaves little doubt that "gear" must be inferior. Why would anyone want to buy an inferior product? /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif The implication is that since "they (HST owners/converts) got smart", if you still drive (and HEAVEN FORBID like) a gear tractor, you lack the same intellectual mettle that they do.
The only "advantage" I can recall any "HST guy" advocating in a gear drive is price. Sure, this is a great advantage! Everyone likes to save money - but, it often goes hand-in-hand with all of the "advantages" of HST. Basically, the implication is if "You're poor, well, then at least there's SOMETHING for you." Intended? Depends on the individual I suppose.
I think when you put all of this together, it isn't hard to get back to the point I (and others) have tried to make - intended or not, the general implication of threads like this one is that HST is superior in every way and you either lack the mental strength or pocketbook to get a "real tractor" if you go gear. Some might refer to this as a "snobbish" attitude.
I'm sure nobody on this thread (or other threads) would characterize themselves as a "snob", and in their daily lives they may very well not fit such a mold. But words and impressions mean things too. If someone can't put themselves in "non-HST shoes" and see they point I'm trying to make, well, I won't go as far as to say that they should be characterized as such, but I will say it's unfortunate and they aren't as "open minded" as they may proclaim themselves to be.
Even though I own one of those pitiful off-brand, gear-box tractors, I have no problem with someone wanting/using HST - and yes - I've used HST myself. I will also state that some of the "facts" that have been thrown out as to HST advantages, I either "don't buy" or quite frankly, I know to be incorrect as I have seen differently with my own eyes. Does it matter which ones? Not really - just that I am going on record as not subscribing to some of the "facts" that have been stated which are really opinions. 'Course, that doesn't really matter, as that was not the point of this post.
I guess I'm now at risk of being stereotyped as one of those irrational/crazy/stupid/biased "gear guys." If you see fit to stereotype me that way, well in your own words, <font color=blue>"mark me down as a knuckle head and click right past my post."</font color=blue>
PS: By the way - I never questioned your honesty, just your approach and attitude.