Buying advice for small land-owner in New Hampshire

[rScotty]

Yellow fuel jugs, good call. Let's not mix up the gas and the diesel.

Thinking about a 3-point drawbar with a ball on it for dragging my utility trailer into the woods with me.. and for skidder work.

That is a handy bar, but check the tractor first. Some have a heavily built tube to accept a standard trailer hitch ball square mount same as your pickup truck. Look for it right below the PTO output shaft.
If you get a 3pt drawbar that is fine too, but get the kind that has some sort of clip or stop so it doesn't rotate. The cheap ones that rotate are a pain to hook up. I've seem some that are an A frame, hook to the 3pt arms and top link, and have a trailer ball tube plus chain hooks. Very handy.

Don't be to quick to buy attachments. New tractors are wonderful, but after you get the tractor you will find that old used beat up attachments will work just exactly as well as new ones and cost a fraction of the price. They are fun to search for and a lot of time the old stuff is better made. Implements haven't changed much in decades. All an old one needs is paint and grease. Pulling it through the dirt will polish it up. I've got a whole line-up. In time you will too. Check in the weeds in the vacant lot behind the dealership......$100 is the price for most; it's basically scrap metal price. I've got some inplements out on "loan" that I haven't seen in years. Probably most of us older TBNers do too.
rScotty

 

[Carl_NH]

Agree 100% - look for sales on CL for plows, Rakes, rear blades, and you can buy older, maybe rusty HD attachments at 15-20% of new then spend a few $ and elbow work for sanding, greasing and paint.

My 6' rear blade is a 80's vintage, but looked like new after sandblasting and paint in 2000 and still looks good, and was under $400 total.

 

[BigNuge]

Congrats! Now get to work, and post some pictures!

 

[Diggin It]

I decided on the Kioti CX2510. Loaded R4's. Loader and hoe with thumb. Plus a couple of implements.
I was dealing with Concord Tractor. I haven't been able to get in touch with the guy in Hampton. Concord had at least 2 a week ago. Sold all of them last weekend. I've called a few other dealers in the region as well. Same story.

Have you read this thread?

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/428471-do-you-know-brian-faulkner.html

 

[rScotty]

Agree 100% - look for sales on CL for plows, Rakes, rear blades, and you can buy older, maybe rusty HD attachments at 15-20% of new then spend a few $ and elbow work for sanding, greasing and paint.

My 6' rear blade is a 80's vintage, but looked like new after sandblasting and paint in 2000 and still looks good, and was under $400 total.

Yep, blades are one of the very expensive attachments that can be bought for a fraction of new & work the same. But blades are popular attachments, so you may only save 25 to 50%. For lots of other implements the diff is even better.
And if it needs to be adjusted or fixed to work right it can easily be 90% off. That's about scrap iron value. Tillers and seeders are in that category.

My other advise to newby would-be tractorites is on the mechanics of actually purchasing anything major....a car, tractor, or house. In this case a tractor, so it up to the buyer to put right on the sales contract who is responsible for hauling during any warranty work and under what conditions that the dealer must provide a loaner tractor.

It's amazing how many people get so excited that they forget to protect themselves on the most basic elements of doing business. Putting your terms on the contract is important. It shows you are being professional, and it saves both sides from misunderstandings. You can simply write these addtions out by hand in ink right on the contract & both parties then sign & initial the hand-written part. Do it twice because both buyer and seller then get an original signed & initialed copy.
rScotty

 

[nhbubba]

I take delivery tomorrow. Planning on taking Friday to get straight to work!

The one thing I hadn't considered is how to move a trailer with the dirt bucket and hoe attached. I'd like to be able to use my utility trailer as to move brush but want the hoe attached for ballast and to be able to use the thumb to load once I remember how terrible I am at working a loader! I hit hardly-fraught the other day and have a receiver I intend to clamp on the loader bucket to see how that works out.

But anyway.


Talk to me about tires. I wanted R4/industrial tires but with the delays and stock issues dealers around here are facing that wasn't possible. Dealer has decided they will deliver the tractor with turf tires installed and will swap them out for me at some point when they get them back in stock, including trucking the tractor back and forth on their dime. I decided this was okay by me.

Talking with my neighbor I'm starting to wonder if I won't want to keep the turfs after all.


To recap, I plan to use my loader a lot. This machine will mostly do lanscape/dirt and light logging/firewood work. Secondary goal is to move snow in the winter. (Because why not!) Part of the selling point of the Kioti was the strong loader & good hydraulic specs.
I have no plans to mow with it at all.


I hear a lot of people, my neighbor included, claim that turf tires are where it is at for snow removal. He and I have almost identical paved drives and he does his without chains. A lot of my buddies with R4 tires on their tractors say chains are basically mandatory in the winter. But then they also have more hills to deal with than we do. Our lots here are very flat and quite sandy and dry. I don't see much mud at all. He has never had trouble using turfs on his machine, snow or in the yard.

What am I in for here? Will I risk wrecking or breaking beads on a 4-ply turf tire doing heavy loader work in the woods? Am I going to run out of traction in a hurry?

 

[rScotty]

I hear a lot of people, my neighbor included, claim that turf tires are where it is at for snow removal. He and I have almost identical paved drives and he does his without chains. A lot of my buddies with R4 tires on their tractors say chains are basically mandatory in the winter. But then they also have more hills to deal with than we do. Our lots here are very flat and quite sandy and dry. I don't see much mud at all. He has never had trouble using turfs on his machine, snow or in the yard.

What am I in for here? Will I risk wrecking or breaking beads on a 4-ply turf tire doing heavy loader work in the woods? Am I going to run out of traction in a hurry?

I have dry sandy soil and like the turf tires. Have had them on two tractors now. Use them in the woods a lot. There is no problem with beads or slippage and they handle full buckets on the loader fine. I suspect they are easier to get a flat....but haven't had that probem. Traction can even be better with turfs on sandy soil because of the greater surface area. When you do loose traction, it doesn't dig such a hole. Plus they ride better and give noticibly more side stability

I do have a full set of re-sized automotive type chains that we sometimes mount in the winter. Not for snow so much as for ice.
And bottom line - yes the industrials are probably the best compromise, then turfs, and then ags way last - but that is specific for use dry sandy/gravel soil and powder snow. On wet snow or ice any of the three types of tread do better with chains.
rScotty

 

[Bullwinkle123]

I take delivery tomorrow. Planning on taking Friday to get straight to work!

The one thing I hadn't considered is how to move a trailer with the dirt bucket and hoe attached. I'd like to be able to use my utility trailer as to move brush but want the hoe attached for ballast and to be able to use the thumb to load once I remember how terrible I am at working a loader! I hit hardly-fraught the other day and have a receiver I intend to clamp on the loader bucket to see how that works out.

But anyway.


Talk to me about tires. I wanted R4/industrial tires but with the delays and stock issues dealers around here are facing that wasn't possible. Dealer has decided they will deliver the tractor with turf tires installed and will swap them out for me at some point when they get them back in stock, including trucking the tractor back and forth on their dime. I decided this was okay by me.

Talking with my neighbor I'm starting to wonder if I won't want to keep the turfs after all.


To recap, I plan to use my loader a lot. This machine will mostly do lanscape/dirt and light logging/firewood work. Secondary goal is to move snow in the winter. (Because why not!) Part of the selling point of the Kioti was the strong loader & good hydraulic specs.
I have no plans to mow with it at all.


I hear a lot of people, my neighbor included, claim that turf tires are where it is at for snow removal. He and I have almost identical paved drives and he does his without chains. A lot of my buddies with R4 tires on their tractors say chains are basically mandatory in the winter. But then they also have more hills to deal with than we do. Our lots here are very flat and quite sandy and dry. I don't see much mud at all. He has never had trouble using turfs on his machine, snow or in the yard.

What am I in for here? Will I risk wrecking or breaking beads on a 4-ply turf tire doing heavy loader work in the woods? Am I going to run out of traction in a hurry?

Man, if the dealer is going to give you turfs and let you change later without charging you an arm and a leg, I'm impressed. That sounds like a pretty expensive proposition for the dealer.

I have no experience with turfs, I use R4's as a compromise of "traction, but without tearing the **** out of my lawn for the occasional trespass". If you're using the loader you'll need traction, can't imagine sticking with turfs. I slip my R4's all the time doing loader work unless I use 4WD. It also seems to be universally agreed that if traction is king, R1 ag tires are best, so it's always a compromise as to needs.

Why not just go ag/r1? Especially if they're already in stock?

Re: snow removal, on pavement or dirt/gravel?

 

[nhbubba]

Yeah. I was surprised too. I am guessing they have an incentive to get the tractor delivered and off their books.
Whatever. I have work to do so it works for me. I didn't argue much.

I don't have any interest in ag tires. At least I don't think I do. I imagine the skinnier tire would be miserable for most of my use.
I am not even sure this dealer regularly stocks ag tires. I believe most of what they sell is R4.

My snow removal is all on pavement. Almost all the driveways around here are paved.

In my informal research I've seen that most people around here run R4s, second to turfs. I don't know anyone that runs ag tires at all. But then I don't know anyone that does anything more than hobby-farm.
My farming goals in life are probably more accurately called "gardening".
I am trying to remember back. I think every rental I've ever had was on R4s.


"ask tractor mike" on the internet says that turf tires => lousy resale. But then he also says turf tires => poor snow traction. Everyone I talk to says turfs are great in the snow. Maybe he's wrong about the resale thing too?!


I did seriously give Kubota an extra point in my shopping as they have the new R14 tire available. (Dealer had them in stock, no cost vs turf or R4.) I took away half a point when I realized they were 4-ply where industrials are 6 or 8 ply. Sounds like ply count is maybe not that important?

 

[nhbubba]

I have dry sandy soil and like the turf tires. Have had them on two tractors now. Use them in the woods a lot. There is no problem with beads or slippage and they handle full buckets on the loader fine. I suspect they are easier to get a flat....but haven't had that probem. Traction can even be better with turfs on sandy soil because of the greater surface area. When you do loose traction, it doesn't dig such a hole. Plus they ride better and give noticibly more side stability

I do have a full set of re-sized automotive type chains that we sometimes mount in the winter. Not for snow so much as for ice.
And bottom line - yes the industrials are probably the best compromise, then turfs, and then ags way last - but that is specific for use dry sandy/gravel soil and powder snow. On wet snow or ice any of the three types of tread do better with chains.
rScotty

Good stuff. Thank you.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

I don't have any pavement to compare tire action on. I went with the R4's to spare the grass, but the tractor stays off the grass as much as possible. I have a lot of sharp sticks (one inch saplings from brush hog cuts) that would love to gouge unprepared tires. So far the R4's are good for me. I also do things in the hilly forest, but that's a whole other world of ways to get myself in trouble. I'm mentally prepared to just add chains when I get desperate enough. Ag tires weren't an option, and I couldn't find any real user testimony on R14's.

 

[Carl_NH]

I have R4's as that's all they put on the B21, and where I am on the coast its all rock/ledge and woods so tough on sidewalls. I do use chains on the front - makes a huge difference in traction and control - this is what I have been using for 3 seasons - inexpensive and easy to install. I figure to get 5-6 years out of them so at less than $20 I can buy a few pairs. Amazon.com: ALEKO Chain One Pair of Passenger Car Snow Chain 12mm, Size 7: Automotive As far as Turfs, yes I hear most everyone on TBN they are better in snow as they have more surface area a wider footprint and more traction.

For woods/rock work R4's are the best, and if you are concerned about sidewalls and sticks/stones then go with the R4s. For moving your trailer around - go to HD or Lowes (or ask your dealer) to weld on a receiver hitch on the top of the bucket that you can put in a normal trailer ball, or a hook too.

For brush hauling I use the combo loader with forks and BH Thumb - The loader holds a lot and thumb can grab a fair amount too - that way you dont need to unload the trailer.

 

[airbiscuit]

What he said.

 

[nhbubba]

Broke it already! 4.9 hours in and one of the loader connectors sprung a leak. Lost quite a bit of fluid in the woods. Parked it as the dealer wants me to come get a new connector and replace it myself. 2 hour round trip I don't have time for right now.

Machine was great until that. I got more done in 3-4 hours on the machine than I have in over a year now. Even the wife was impressed. Tons of power and I am glad it isn't any bigger. Great hydrostatic drive and the loader is a beast. Forks are my MVP attachment so far. But the bucket is easy to operate. I think the level indicator is a huge help. Farted around with the backhoe. That's going to take some practice.

 

[Thomas]

"I got more done in 3-4 hours on the machine than I have in over a year now."
Your muscles and bones will thanking you in years to come.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

"I got more done in 3-4 hours on the machine than I have in over a year now."
Your muscles and bones will thanking you in years to come.

Yeah, my tractor is unlikely to fully pay for itself on a dollar basis, i.e. stuff that I can now do on my time that I used to pay for. Though it will save me a lot of money, to be sure. What the tractor does that makes it worth the additional money is the stuff I was finding it difficult or dangerous to do. Now I can clean up fallen trees with my grapple in minutes, compared to spending my weekend making many more cuts with the chain saw, hauling off all the little pieces in a garden cart, and stuff I generally just don't have the energy to do any more. I had trees lying over my field/yard that I just didn't have the oomph to remove. Now all cleaned up with the tractor. It's also much less painful than back surgery.

 

[nhbubba]

Bought : new Kioti CX2510, KL2510 loader, KB2465 backhoe, mechanical thumb, 36" quick-attach pallet forks, loaded tires, ratchet rake.

I forgot to look at the meter but I should have well over 10 hours on it now. Time for some initial thougths?!

I like it!

My first project is to finish cleaning up some of my land after felling several good sized eastern white pines. Goal was to open up the woods, clear the soft-wood, scrape the ground of litter and set up some natural outdoor play-space for the kids. I have already used all of the implements I bought.

Some random thoughts.

Tractor

• Side-by-side hydrostat controls are fine. I kind of got uptight about favoring this setup over the rocker pedal when shopping. I'm not sure that was warranted. I have hit the wrong lever several times now. I do like the relatively more open foot space though
• Tilt steering is dumb. I will probably never adjust the wheel. Maybe my wife will use the tractor and adjust. Not worth paying for
• The Kioti seat is great. I love the little bit of suspension it has. Got it dialed in to my weight and I think my back appreciated it
• Arm rests are dumb. Mine will probably always be up and out of the way
• The drink holder is about 1/4" too small in diameter. My water jug keeps falling out! Ran over it with the tractor several times
• 4WD + turf tires are fine for my use. I may keep these even though the dealer has agreed to swap for R4's when they get those tires back in stock
• Machine is plenty strong. Pushes and grades just fine. I haven't used the PTO or 3-point yet
• Power steering is the bomb!
• Hydrostatic drive is smooth and easy to use
• Machine started to overheat at one point when scraping and doing cleanup of the area I cleared. I shut the machine down immediately, popped the hood and let it cool. The radiator screen had some debris in it and the vents on the hood did too. But not enough where I would have thought airflow would be a problem. After about 30 min I fired it up and went back to work. Temp remained mid-range the rest of the day doing the same work and all seemed fine after that
• I really dislike that the machine must be in neutral range to start
• I left the backhoe on as ballast. Having it on is annoying. It has quite a swing and clanks around a lot when doing loader work. I see a ballast box in my future

Loader

• Loader quick-attach is fantastic. Glad I did not settle for an older machine that lacked this feature
• The loader joystick is a bit notchy. I kept dropping the bucket harder than intended. I hope the joystick breaks in a bit and I learn better finesse with the controls
• After about 4 hours of use one of the loader quick-connects sprung a leak. Dealer handed me a replacement and I R&R'ed it myself. In the meantime I had managed to loose almost a gallon of hydro fluid. It goes quick!
• For some reason I am already much more proficient with the dirt bucket on this machine than any rental I've had. I think the bucket level indicator helps a lot for a home-gamer like myself

Backhoe : I only played with the backhoe a bit. I pulled a stump in the woods for practice as I didn't want to tear up my finished lawn yet. I need some practice with it as I lack backhoe coordination. Most of my experience was with a Teramite TLB rental. I felt the Kioti backhoe is not quite as powerful and the Teramite was easier to operate for some reason. Kioti controls are silky smooth, much smoother than the loader joystick. Easy to modulate already. I simply lack experience with it. The mechanical thumb is frickin' awesome!

Implements:
I have not attached/detached the backhoe or loader yet. Honestly ease of loader attach/detach seems like a non-issue as I will probably never remove the loader.
Dirt bucket seems solid and is functional. Dealer installed a chain hook and I've already used it once. Excellent add-on.
Ratchet-rake is just as useful as everyone said it would be. I am delighted at how well it works. I had considered a landscape rake. This is cheaper and seems effective enough for me for now.
The forks are my current MVP of my implement stable. Just awesome! 36" tines are perfect for my needs.

I am more than half way done with my first project already after just a day and a half at it. I figure I have maybe 1-2 more full days of work that will likely get spread out over several weeks/months to come.
This fall I also hope to spend some time trying to pull some stumps in my finished lawn.

 

[rademamj1]

Kudos to you for providing such detailed and extensive feedback on your 1st tractor experience. Many first time tractor buyers will gain useful knowledge from your posts.

I have R4 tires on my tractor, but seriously considering going to R3 turf tires for the front. Just so tired of the damage these can do to lawns. Now I see why Ag tires constitute only 4% of sales for 40hp tractors and under.

 

[nhbubba]

For me it is snow. I would like to use the tractor to clear my paved driveway. Most I know who do this with tractors with R4's run chains. I'm wondering if I could side-step the need for chains in the winter with turfs. Everyone says turfs are king for snow use.
At this point I think I may eventually buy some chains for it and use the chains in the woods when needed in the spring. The inverse of what I expected.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the resale angle? Some say resale of a machine with turf tires is poor and that R4's are king. Maybe that is regional?

 

[BrkMstr]

Not sure if I agree with the resale statement - see very few lawn care companies w/out turfs - in my travels I see many homeowners with turfs on their sub-compacts / compacts, to me re-sale would not be an issue - as to the other question, I have R4's on mine, no chains - no issues at all in the winter, so it all depends on how / where you use it - if I change it will be to the R14's as long as the six or eight ply are available - the only problem I've had with turfs was with loader use, heavy loads could easily run them off the rim.....