Buying an argon cylinder

joshuabardwell · May 13, 2013

I put up a Want-To-Buy ad on Craigslist recently, looking for an argon cylinder. Somebody contacted me saying he had a 300 cf cylinder (empty) that he'd sell me. I have some reservations because nobody around here sells larger than 125 off-lease, but we talked about it and he said if you have a corporate account, you can buy larger cylinders and then if you end up selling them, they're free and clear. That's how he said he came to own these cylinders.

He says that there are several stamps on the neck, from small/old welding supplies, and that there is an Airgas label on the cylinders. I expressed that my main concern was being sure that I could get them filled, and I proposed that he take the cylinder down to Airgas and get it filled up, keep the receipt, and I'd pay him for the cylinder and the gas.

Do you guys have any input? I offered $200 for the cylinder (empty) plus the cost of the gas. I don't want to end up buying a cylinder that I can't get filled (e.g. because it's leased). I talked on the phone with the LWS and they said that they could fill the cylinder, but they'd have to send it out--no exchanges. Given how long it's likely to take me to go through a 300 cf cylinder, I think that's acceptable, especially when you factor in the savings of filling a 300 vs. an 80 or 125 cf tank.

joshuabardwell · May 13, 2013

More info coming in. Airgas says that they will not refill the cylinder without a bill of sale on the seller's letterhead, or some other way to confirm that it's not a leased tank. The seller says that the cylinders were purchased from a metal supply company that purchased them in a lot at auction. Potentially, if I could produce the auction bill of sale and the bill of sale from the metal supply company, that would establish that they're not leased, but I'm not sure that's a good position to be in. If anything ever happened to those documents, I'd be up a creek.

JN4310 · May 13, 2013

It could be a good deal, but there can be issues with large customer owned cylinders. Check out WeldingWeb.com. Lots of posts about this issue there.

Arc weld · May 13, 2013

The guy is full of it! DON'T buy that cylinder. Of course if you put an ad looking for a cylinder, every crooked weasel will come out of the woodwork offering to sell you a cylinder that was supposed to have been returned. As far as I know, Airgas does not sell cylinders that size. They make their money leasing the larger cylinders. If you buy any cylinder ask to see a copy of the receipt and/or where they had it exchanged. There are few places that sell cylinders but they are mostly smaller independant distributors. Their cylinders would have their sticker on them and possible their name on the neck ring or no name at all on the neck ring. If you take a cylinder in that wasn't a customer owned cylinder, they could confiscate it. If the cylinder is old, it may need a hydrotest to be re-certified. That's about $35 and you could wait a long time to get it back. Have seen several times where someone bought cylinders for cheap at an auction or estate sale only to find out they are lease cylinders and they threw their money away. Auctioneers should held liable but I don't think they are.

About a year ago the place I was working, at the time, got a call from a guy asking if they wanted to buy some of their acetylene cylinders. He had a sea can full of them, over 30 cylinders! Some were still full. What the company should have done is tell the guy to stop by so they could see the cylinders. Then they could have him charged with theft and/or possession of stolen property. The cylinders are quite unique in the industry. They were Air Liquide Altops with the built in regulators. Nobody else has them and Air Liquide does not sell them.

Mark @ Everlast · May 13, 2013

Joshua, these days, I wouldn't touch that deal...especially if Air Gas is involved. If there is NO stamp on the cylinder neck you are clear, but as it is, I had a couple of bottles given to me, both that were "owned"...but neither company I tried would fill them. One would claim them, but would not fill them for me...but was not the last company that filled them.

Shield Arc · May 13, 2013

Around here I'm not sure you can buy the 300 + bottles, most likely you can. I own several 250s, all the privately owned bottles here have a yellow sticker with a black P on them.
In your case I'd have the guy meet you down at the local welding supply you use, and if they say they will fill it, then I'd buy it. I read stories all the time where people buy bottles, then can't get them filled.

joshuabardwell · May 13, 2013

Shield Arc said:
In your case I'd have the guy meet you down at the local welding supply you use, and if they say they will fill it, then I'd buy it. I read stories all the time where people buy bottles, then can't get them filled.

That seems to be where we're headed. Currently, he says he can't borrow a pickup to take them down, but he'll let me take one down to get it filled myself, and if I have any trouble, he'll give me my money back. But since Airgas says out-and-out they won't fill it without paperwork, I don't see much point in that exercise. I think this deal is souring...

Shield Arc · May 13, 2013

I've been dealing with my local welding supply longer than anyone has been working there, 35-years. It is nice I walk in the door, and everyone says Shield!

If they told me they would fill a bottle I have no reason not to believe them. I go in there and buy things all the time get to talking, and forget to sign the paper work, they just bill me at the end of the month anyway.

joshuabardwell · May 13, 2013

... doing a little more Internet research, it seems that even the auction purchase is not definitive. Found at least one story of a person who bought at auction and had the cylinders repossessed.