BX24 Blown Engine

[N80]

I think it is time for you to assert yourself a little more strongly.

 

[Dusty]

There is no way that I would allow them to "fix" that engine. A new engine is in order. At this point, I would hand deliver a letter to the Kubota Dealership saying that you are not agreeing to the "repair", and that they should cease and desist any further repairs. After they read that letter, if they should ask what you are going to do next, tell them that it is in the hands of your attorney. Lemon laws usually don't deal with tractors, so check with our state Attorney General to see what your legal recourse is. I also would find an attorney that is local to you to help you with the problem. You don't want one in the town where the dealership is located, because you don't know what type of relationship the attorney might have with the dealer. At this point, I think that you should be looking for a full refund or a replacement tractor. Don't get nasty or loud, but be quiet and firm. Remember, the dealer wants to keep you happy, and doesn't want to anger Kubota either. He is in the middle, and is still in a position to help you. If you alienate him, he will not help you at all. Make sure that he understands that your actions are a result of Kubota Corporations stand, not his. Is this tractor financed? If so, I believe that some states have laws that deals with financed products and manufacturers defects, and allow you to stop making payments until the defect is corrected.
Dusty

 

[ozzie tractor]

i want to know where the oil in the chmber came from?
i, as someone suggested earlier, suspect a dodgy injector, or possibly head gasket. was the machine overheated (honestly now, and do you keep a good eye on the temp guage).
back to the injector, i had a stuck one on a F3680 the other day. 5 hours old, so it does happen. normally kubota motors are super reliable (hey i own one too) but in the probably 3000 new bota's i have been involved with i have only seen one explode and one use excess oil and both where in a ZD21. to this day know one knows why, but one blew a hole in a piston. kubota took it away for inspection. we tested the oils and fuel, checked every thing. no idea. 1 new motor please. the one with excess oil use was a nightmare. we did compression tests, monitored oil consumption, tore it down and measured it all. measured ok. fitted new rings and sent it back out. still used oil so finally another new motor please. as a dealer you can only do what the factory says. i dont think i would take the rebuilt motor. go over your dealer and regional reps head. get hold of someone at head office and make some noise. write everything down so you can tell them exactly when you talked and hat you said. i am shure your dealer wont mind. he will be sick of the hassles too.
remember Kubota is very proud of its product.
dont panic and go on about hearing of 2 more blown kubota motors. both where fixed under warranty and i know of 2998 that have been super reliable, and thats only the new ones. like i saaid i own one too.

 

[proudestmonkey]

I called the dealer and the dealer said Kubota has agreed to fix the engine. Nothing more was said about the "Use Issue". I am concerned that they want to fix the engine instead of replacing it. I know it will be under warranty but I have already lost the use of my machine for close to 2 months of shop time. No telling how long it will take to fix the engine. I should get word tomorrow on how long they will have to wait for parts.

On the bright side, I opened my mail and found a feedback form from Kubota asking me to rate the service I received in April. (The service that kept my tractor for 4 weeks while waiting for parts when the tractor was only 2 weeks old.)

Before you do anything else, I would suggest, as others have, that you talk to an attorney about your options. There may be state laws that protect you, but also contain specific provisions (time, written notice, etc.) that you need to take to protect your rights.

Here's a friendly suggestion (not legal advice). Tell the dealer you want to get confirmation in writing from Kubota (not the dealer) that Kubota will fix the engine under warranty (no cost to you), tell them you want this before any repairs are done so you know this will not be charged to you. Tell them not to do the repair until you receive the letter from Kubota and you call back and approve the repair.

Once you have the letter from Kubota, send a copy of it back to Kubota with a cover letter (via certifed mail) that references the letter (which is now proof that Kubota has determined that it is their problem, not yours). Give them the history of your tractor repairs (covered under warranty). Tell them that you want a completely new tractor because you obviously have a lemon. Give them a deadline to respond, and tell them if you don't get what you are demanding by the deadline, you will have your lawyer take legal action against Kubota (this assumes, as suggested above, that you already have spoken to a lawyer), not only for a new tractor or refund, but also for the time you have had to spend without a tractor (talk to your attorney about whether you might be entitled to damages of some kind).

Like others have said, unless there's something we don't know about your use of the tractor, the kinds of problems you are having with this tractor seem to be unique to this universe, or at least to the universal experience of everyone on this forum, and that is a lot of experience (including mine, but my experience is very limited).

Based on what you have said, if you accept anything less than a new tractor, you are bound to continue to have problems with this one--and there is no good reason for that at all.

This machine is not a Yugo. It is a Kubota. That should mean something.

Let us know if there is anything we can do to help you (e.g. as someone else suggested, get an email address so those of us who wish to do so can write something in support of your situation).

Lastly, I am really sorry that you have had to go through this. No one should have to put up with this.

 

[rdsaustintx]

This machine is not a Yugo.

What color are their tractors? Just curious.

RDnT

 

[vegasguzzi]

I talked to the service manager yesterday. He is waiting for a piston. Maybe next week? I appreciate all of the feedback but my yard is a mess. I need my tractor back.

Kubota is fixing the tractor under warranty, so they have accepted liability. They have not provided a reason for the failure. I monitor the gauges pretty frequently while I am operating the machine. I can honestly say that I did not look at the temperature gauge when it started smoking. I was trying to shut the engine down. (which it did not want to do, maybe a bad injector?)

I live in Cali so they are pretty active with consumer protection. I had a car that was covered by the Lemon Law and I spent months without a vehicle while it sat in the shop. Infinity flew techs in from everywhere and experimented with the car to try to correct the problems. I was reimbursed for my expenses but it took months to resolve. As long as the manufacturer is operating in "Good Faith", you have to allow them to try and resolve the problems.

The Kubota warranty explicitly states that loss of use is not a protection provided.

Some of the problems I suspect are related to the service department (cross threaded hydraulics, service not completed, and low priority for an individual buyer). I have been biting my tongue because I want to get the tractor back.

 

[RonR]

As others have said, I'd sure rather have a new engine. Who can tell how much stress was put on other parts when the piston blew?

As a minimum, I'd want a written 3 yr warranty on the engine since it is supposed to be "like new" now.

If you don't get a good feeling that the dealer will fix the engine again if this happens again, no matter how many hours it has, I'd be for either trading it back or trading for something else. It might cost you a coupla K now, but I'd be worried about a possible defective engine that I would get to fix if it breaks again.

Best wishes,
ron

 

[Dusty]

The engine repair will be only as good as the dealer's mechanic, or technician, as they prefer to be called today. I have seen this type of thing in the past with engines that have low miles and they just repair the damage to the one cylinder. Problem is that the damage done to the crankshaft, if any, will not show up for many hours or years later. I have seen engines that have been damaged by overheating and the consequences of that event don't show until you suddenly have a failure 2 years later, and wonder why it happened, when similar engines have more miles and no problems. I wouldn't trade the tractor, since any loss in value that you will sustain now, will not be any more than having to replace the engine if it were to fail at some time in the future. I would suggest that you talk to the service manage and ask him to advise you when the engine is apart, so you can inspect it first hand yourself. Also bring along a camera to take pictures of the disassembled engine and any visible defects that you might notice. Documentation of how much it is disassembled will be helpful if it fails shortly thereafter. If you notice any scoring of the cylinder or the crankshaft, ask them to stop and contact Kubota about getting a new engine. If the cylinder wall is scored, and they install a new piston, that one cylinder will develop problems later in life. You might not notice the problems initially, but they will be there later on. At this point, you are at their mercy, but that doesn't mean that you have to take a back seat to being involved in the repair. Ask for the damaged parts, not that they will give them up, but at least it will show your concern about documentation. Also, ask them to give you a copy of the repair order that they submit to Kubota for warranty reimbursement purposes. You are entitled to that for your records.
I still believe that you are entitled to additional time on the warranty based on the amount of time that it has spent in the shop for warranty repairs. Keep a well documented log of lost time. You are not entitled to compensation for this time, but it shouldn't be used to shorten the warranty period. If they have the tractor for 6 weeks, that will extend your warranty for 6 weeks. Some companies are flexible about failures that are close to the warranty date, and others are not. Those 6 weeks can save you if you have another failure that is close to the original warranty expiration.
Dusty

 

[RonR]

As others have said, I'd sure rather have a new engine. Who can tell how much stress was put on other parts when the piston blew?

As a minimum, I'd want a written 3 yr warranty on the engine since it is supposed to be "like new" now.

If you don't get a good feeling that the dealer will fix the engine again if this happens again, no matter how many hours it has, I'd be for either trading it back or trading for something else. It might cost you a coupla K now, but I'd be worried about a possible defective engine that I would get to fix if it breaks again.

Best wishes,
ron

 

[shownuff]

just like any other warranty issue they will only repair what is necessary to get it going again.if there is a part that is not involved in the repair but should be changed anyway they wont repair it till it breaks, i have seen it happen already.........

 

[Taiser]

Why would they not give you the old parts back??? They belong to the owner. If I didn't get my parts back when asked, I'd scream!!!!

 

[Taiser]

Ask for the damaged parts, not that they will give them up!

Why would they not give you the old parts back??? They belong to the owner. If I didn't get my parts back when asked, I'd yell...real loud!!!!

 

[Dusty]

Why would they not give you the old parts back??? They belong to the owner. If I didn't get my parts back when asked, I'd yell...real loud!!!!

You are only entitled to the used / old parts when you are paying for the repair. The reason that I suggested that he try to get them, is if he has a problem later on, the old parts, pictures, and the repair order showing the parts used will show exactly what the repair was that they had done. That way, they can't say that they rebuilt the entire engine, when they only did a patch job. I wouldn't put it past any service department to pad the invoice that is submitted for warranty reimbursement so they can make up the lost money because of the differential of what the factory pays and the customer pays for labor rates. An example would be to charge for a engine bearing and reuse the old bearing. The proper way to do that job would be to remove the crankshaft and set it up on a crankshaft grinder and read the lobes with a dial indicator to determine if the shaft is bent. I doubt that they would do that procedure. If the crankshaft is bent a few thousands of an inch, then it is going to eventually take out the main bearings. If this happens out of warranty, then the owner is out of luck. If it happens in warranty, then Kubota Corporate might say.... "What did you do to that engine to blow it up a second time." The repair will only be as good as the mechanic and how far the dealer is willing to go to verify that all is well before he puts it back together.
Dusty

 

[PlanMan]

It's too bad a customer has to anticipate these practices Dusty but you are absolutely right.

I had a clutch replaced in a B7100, was quoted a $650 estimate, and handed an $1100 bill. Dealer said "Oh well we replaced all seals, yada yada..." Paid the bill and was on my way.

Third time using the tractor the snow in my drive looked like a dalmation. Engine oil was dripping from the bell housing. Dealer said "it's this seal or that seal". I said nope, bill says you replaced them. Dealer said the crank is bent. I said it wasn't leaking when you took it. They picked it up, kept it three weeks and it was back in my drive one day when I got home from work. No bill, no phone calls, nothing. I stopped by the service dept. and the mechanic said he didn't know why it leaked. Put in another seal. Was it replaced the first time? I wondered.

 

[Dusty]

Some rear main seals are part of the bell housing, and other times they are part of the block. If it is part of the bell housing, it is normal to replace them, if and when the bell housing is removed for service. It is also normal for them to let loose, if the person doing the work isn't familiar with the replacement procedure. You are lucky that the leak didn't ruin the clutch facing also. It takes a lot of force to bend a crankshaft, so I rarely ever consider that a possibility unless there has been some catastrophic failure, such as the BX24 engine being discussed in this Kubota forum. It is unconscionable to charge a customer $1100 after they were quoted $650. The normal is no more than 10% deviation, unless you contact the customer first and get an approval. In many states, they have regulations governing these type of overcharges. What good is an estimate if they don't have to abide by it?
Dusty

 

[PlanMan]

The discrepency was labor. I was quoted by a service manager that took ill & wasn't coming back. 2 something for parts and 8 hrs. labor @ $50/hr. turned into 15 hrs. labor. But as I stood at the service counter, my tractor had already left on the dealer's truck and was on the way to my house. What do ya do.

 

[ozzie tractor]

The discrepency was labor. I was quoted by a service manager that took ill & wasn't coming back. 2 something for parts and 8 hrs. labor @ $50/hr. turned into 15 hrs. labor. But as I stood at the service counter, my tractor had already left on the dealer's truck and was on the way to my house. What do ya do.

explode, get hold of the owner. i sit on the other side of the counter to where you sit and i still find this to be rediculouse. 15 hours to do a clutch on a b7100, they must be kidding, i can do a multi plate cluch on a 100hp tractor with a loader and cab on it in that amount of time. would like to see exactly what they did. and by the way when i do a clutch the rear main is always factored in. dont want to be going back in there again in a weeks time. i suspect the tech screwed up when he fitted the seal.