Loader BX25 Loader bucket position while using backhoe?

[Rock Crawler]

My father owned a home construction for years and used large equipment, one item was a large old Case loader/backhoe that they used on job sites. So when I picked this little Kubota BX25 up, he was happy to come over and show me how to use it. He told me that they always put the loader bucket down with the blade into the dirt to help hold the tractor into position because you would otherwise easily pull the outriggers through the dirt, it was just another added resistance added to help allow you to do more work with the available backhoe strength.

So I posted on Facebook a photo of my son using the backhoe to dig out small tree root balls, and someone commented pretty quickly that I should lay the bucket on the loader down flat because I will damage the loader curl cylinder using it in this position. That confuses me a bit... This is the cylinder that I use as I am spinning tires forward in 4x4 to curl the bucket up if I stop moving (and still spinning tires) or add more downward curl once it starts moving again. That digging should be putting a heck of a lot more stress on the cylinder than it is in this position and simply being at rest (in respect to hydraulic input) with the blade being use for positional stability.

Is there something that I'm missing here? The hydraulic ram is intended for digging, curling, taking stress loads and such. I can't imagine that the ram will fail from this, and I don't expect it to fail from digging. Isn't that why they build and sell these things to us? My expectation is that the build is such that you can use the machine up to it's limitations with minimal fear of damage outside of normal wear and tear with resulting periodic maintenance and repair.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Your father is exactly right. If you just lay the FEL bucket flat, you can easily pull the tractor backward while dragging the stabilizers thru the dirt. Folks will tell you that will damage the stabilizers also and that is more likely the case than damaging the bucket cylinders. I have accidently tried to drag my stabilizer in the dirt sometime by moving the tractor and forgetting to raise the stabs. but so far no damage to those either.

I put my FEL down with the blade in the dirt just like you all the time and still drag it backward sometimes. Never done any damage to the cylinders. I also use it that way to drag dirt back from a pile when I need to load. I will lower the FEL into a hard dirt pile, back up and let the blade cut off a chunk of it that I can then scoop up.

Lots of folks will tell you that you can damage a cylinder that way too but I never have. I do wonder if anyone has ever actually damaged a cylinder or if it is just internet myth. I do hear of the internal nut coming off sometimes, but I think that is likely bad fabrication and not an issue of how the cylinder has been used.

If I do damage mine, then I will replace the cylinder and keep on doing what I have been doing because otherwise the uses of the backhoe are pretty limited. Much of the internet "don't do this or xxxx will happen" has much to do with a weak design of equipment rather than an actual reason for not doing it. My B26 is considered an industrial design and your BX may not be as strong, but I doubt you will harm it by continuing to do just what your father said.

 

[Egon]

Your Father has given good advice. It's quite easy to lift/drag the outriggers when working the backhoe.

 

[sea2summit]

Internet advice is generally worth what you pay for it but facebook advice is often worth paying not to get

 

[4570Man]

That's how I always did it unless I was digging on grass.

 

[3Ts]

I use my bucket the way Gary does and I use it to stabilize my backhoe as well. I've put plenty of pressure on the bucket in lifting things including single point lifts and have bent the bucket, but have never damaged the cylinders. The one thing I am careful about is the down pressure on the bucket and possibly twisting the loader arms when I'm on a hill.

 

[shui5612]

As far as I know and understand, the way you are using it is perfectly fine and the way that I use mine (heck I even lift the front wheels off the ground and then the rear ones using the stabilizer bars).

The issue on bent cylinders comes from tractors that are too big to be lifted or not made for said work.

For example a big 100hp farm tractor with a backhoe and loader, you can lift the whole thing up but all of the stress and weight are on the "frame" and cylinders.

Seeing how most big tractors don't have "frames" it can cause them to break in half.. the big "yellow cat or John deeres" have an actual frame where the backhoe is bolted to the tractor as opposed to being on the 3ph..

 

[ThirdMan]

As far as I know and understand, the way you are using it is perfectly fine and the way that I use mine (heck I even lift the front wheels off the ground and then the rear ones using the stabilizer bars).

Do you find that more stable then leaving the tires on the ground?

 

[shui5612]

It depends on the terrain, but figure that all of the weight on the tractor is concentrated on 3 points which are somewhat small. The loader when angled perpendicular to the ground acts like a brake that prevents the tractor from going forward and back while the stabilizers prevent the side to side movement while also making the setup more rigid which helps "increase" digging power since there are less losses (mostly due to flex).

Tires are soft and because they have a higher footprint (it means less pressure on a given point) tend to float over the surface.

Not to mention if you have your tires on the ground, they provide close to no support back and forth as they roll and side to side due to flex.

The only way they limit your back and forth movement is if you apply the brakes which to me is just "another thing involved that can break/wear".

On things like gravel , rocks, asphalt the tires help as they provide some anti skid properties. Tires also help in muddy /softer terrain as it prevents the tractor from sinking in , but if your stabilizers are sinking in then they are not really doing anything to begin with.

While on sand, earth, turf I find that it helps to have them in the air as the tractor will only damage 3small patches as opposed to 7 (tires and stabilizer and loader).

All big equipment with outriggers is usually just on its outriggers when working since that provides the most rigid frame possible. (Think cranes, boom lifts, sky jacks, wheeled excavators, etc).

 

[Rock Crawler]

Do you find that more stable then leaving the tires on the ground?

Absolutely, without a doubt. It also makes the vehicle able take your pushing/pulling from the backhoe better and deliver more power into the dig compared to just the outriggers. I point the bucket down, just barely lift the front tires from the surface, then spin and lift with the outriggers until the rear tires leave the ground, then finally tweak to level the machine if your on a side slope. It's a good bit more stable and provides a good bit more power transfer into the dig than tires down and just outriggers for motion cessation.