Loader BX25 Loader bucket position while using backhoe?

[LS Tractor Owner]

My father owned a home construction for years and used large equipment, one item was a large old Case loader/backhoe that they used on job sites. So when I picked this little Kubota BX25 up, he was happy to come over and show me how to use it. He told me that they always put the loader bucket down with the blade into the dirt to help hold the tractor into position because you would otherwise easily pull the outriggers through the dirt, it was just another added resistance added to help allow you to do more work with the available backhoe strength.

So I posted on Facebook a photo of my son using the backhoe to dig out small tree root balls, and someone commented pretty quickly that I should lay the bucket on the loader down flat because I will damage the loader curl cylinder using it in this position. That confuses me a bit... This is the cylinder that I use as I am spinning tires forward in 4x4 to curl the bucket up if I stop moving (and still spinning tires) or add more downward curl once it starts moving again. That digging should be putting a heck of a lot more stress on the cylinder than it is in this position and simply being at rest (in respect to hydraulic input) with the blade being use for positional stability.

Is there something that I'm missing here? The hydraulic ram is intended for digging, curling, taking stress loads and such. I can't imagine that the ram will fail from this, and I don't expect it to fail from digging. Isn't that why they build and sell these things to us? My expectation is that the build is such that you can use the machine up to it's limitations with minimal fear of damage outside of normal wear and tear with resulting periodic maintenance and repair.

I have used mt LSmt125 the same way to dig a 800 sq ft septic system (6' down, 2' wide)trenches w/o any problems or damage to the cylinders. Matter of fact, if I didn't dig the bucket in, I would just pull the tractor backwards. I only dig the bucket in an inch or two, not lifting the front end off the ground. I do set the parking brake and keep it in 4wd. I have abused the loader lifting 4-6" rock for the septic beds (shoving it into the pile and lifting an overfilled bucket) without any damage. My opinion is to keep using it as you are.

 

[sea2summit]

Do you find that more stable then leaving the tires on the ground?

Never do work with wheels off the ground!

 

[sea2summit]

Absolutely, without a doubt. It also makes the vehicle able take your pushing/pulling from the backhoe better and deliver more power into the dig compared to just the outriggers. I point the bucket down, just barely lift the front tires from the surface, then spin and lift with the outriggers until the rear tires leave the ground, then finally tweak to level the machine if your on a side slope. It's a good bit more stable and provides a good bit more power transfer into the dig than tires down and just outriggers for motion cessation.

Youæ±*e STABALIZERS are there to stabilize so the tractor doesn稚 tip over, the forward and backward motion goes against the weakest part of the stabalizers. The FEL is built for strength along the axis of travel not laterally. All you should do with the FEL and stabilizers is take load off of the tires to get good purchase not support the tractor with them.

 

[4570Man]

Youæ±*e STABALIZERS are there to stabilize so the tractor doesn稚 tip over, the forward and backward motion goes against the weakest part of the stabalizers. The FEL is built for strength along the axis of travel not laterally. All you should do with the FEL and stabilizers is take load off of the tires to get good purchase not support the tractor with them.

Real backhoes are strong enough to pull the entire machine off the ground pivoting against the stabilizers. Pretty much everyone has lifted the machine with the stabilizers. Some people myself included do it almost every time. Yet stabilizers getting torn off isn't a big problem. Bending the loader curl cylinders with the bucket at maximum dump angle is a problem.

 

[Grandad4]

What 4570 said. The operator's manual would probably indicate to plant the lip of the bucket slightly in the ground for stability, even on a little BX 25. It might also say to keep the bucket mildly angled down, not curled down all the way, because, as with any hydraulic cylinder, the curl cylinders are most vulnerable to bending when they are fully extended. The backhoe exerts the greatest leverage on the tractor doing a bucket curl, as when scooping dirt or prying on an embedded object. If you use some caution when doing this, you should be able to judge whether you are working the unit too hard.

 

[coldsteelva]

As has been said ad-nauseum, the stabilizers should be planted, but the rear end of the tractor should not be lifted up in the air (an inch won't hurt) and wheels down provides some friction against the BH moving the tractor (surface dependent). I do the same with the loader bucket, since more contact points on/in the ground the more stable the work.

Does a BX have spiked stabilizers? On the GC1710s and GC1720s the stabilizers can be rotated ~180 on the pins and are formed with 'turf spikes' to get a better bite. If you don't flip them, then you have the smooth steel foot for street use, but they have no pads. A rubber covered steel shoe set is available, but I have determined that IF I ever to work on a paved surface, highway alligators cut to fit would provide more pad/traction.

 

[ThirdMan]

I don't have a BX, but my backhoe manual states, "Do not lift the tractor rear wheels by stabilizers. Also, be sure the stabilizers are seated on hard ground to support." I have operated mine pretty much how LS mt125 owner, sea2summit, and coldsteelva describe. My biggest problem with pulling the tractor backward is when I lift the back end off the ground while curling into hard soil or clay. Then it is just the edge of the bucket up front holding me in place. The bucket just drags across the surface and the tractor is pulled back.

 

[Yowie]

Remember, if you're using a backhoe the ground is probably not flat or level. Also, if you're pulling and pushing with the backhoe your brakes will not work.

OK Here's a verbatim quote from the BX manual which could not be more clear.

manual Page 55 Operating the Backhoe
PLACING THE STABILIZERS

CAUTION
To avoid personal injury:
o When working on slopes, one stabilizer may be lower than the other.
o When digging on a hillside, always dump the bucket on the uphill side of excavation.
o To reduce the risk of overturn on a slope, place the spoil to the high side of the excavation.

1. Lower the stabilizers and remove the weight of the backhoe from the rear wheels. However, one or both rear tires should remain in light contact with the ground. This will give the backhoe the widest possible stance and the lowest center of gravity. (thus optimum stability. If the tractor is positioned on a cross slope its best not to have any wheel in ground contact)
If the rear wheels are raised too high, digging depth will be reduced and undue stress will be exerted on the backhoe frame components.
If the slope is unusually steep, cut a level surface with the loader and pile the spoil on the downhill side. Backdrag and pack the spoil so it will support the Stabilizer on the low side. This procedure is recommended when a wall, tree line or other obstruction prevents placing backhoe spoil on the high side of the excavation.
2. The loader bucket should be lowered to give the backhoe unit a "tri-pod" stance. With the loader bucket in ground contact, front tire bounce (or front axle pivot) will not be a factor overall control. When possible, the loader bucket cutting edge should be lowered vertically into the ground surface. This will assist the stabilizers, not allowing the unit to shift, while excavating. However, on a slope, the bottom of the bucket should be used, and only the side that contacts the uneven terrain. (This I do not agree with) Too much loader down pressure, on a slope, will restrict the unit from being correctly leveled and will place an undue twist through the loader bucket and lift arms. [End Quote]
There is also an image in the manual showing a rear view of the tractor with both wheels well clear of the ground.

If the ground is not level its always best and safest to level it with the FEL bucket first. Having owned and used my BX23 since January 2011 no issues or damage to the bucket rams or FEL structure have resulted from operating the Backhoe as described above with all four wheels off the ground. In fact I have had no problems at all with this brilliant little machine. It will go where others cannot.

 

[Yowie]

Remember, if you're using a backhoe the ground is probably not flat or level. Also, if you're pulling and pushing with the backhoe your brakes will not work.

To clarify, the BX23 brakes only work on the rear wheels. If 4WD is selected they will also effectively brake the two front wheels through the transmission as a pair, but not individually. If the rear wheels are off the ground they will have no braking effect so it is vitally important BEFORE you lower your stabilisers to have 4WD selected and the foot parking brake engaged. Otherwise, if you're on a rearward slope you could end up in the hole you just dug.

 

[tractorgp]

Remember, if you're using a backhoe the ground is probably not flat or level. Also, if you're pulling and pushing with the backhoe your brakes will not work.

To clarify, the BX23 brakes only work on the rear wheels. If 4WD is selected they will also effectively brake the two front wheels through the transmission as a pair, but not individually. If the rear wheels are off the ground they will have no braking effect so it is vitally important BEFORE you lower your stabilisers to have 4WD selected and the foot parking brake engaged. Otherwise, if you're on a rearward slope you could end up in the hole you just dug.

Wow Yowie that's all good solid info.