Oil & Fuel Bypass oil filter for those that care

[J_J]

AMSOIL - Ea By-Pass Oil Filters (EaBP)

$38.00 Filter element

This is the bypass oil filter and system that I use on two of my Dixie Choppers. It works because common sense was used in it's design. The while puprose of these filters is to filter a small amount of oil over a long time, lasting about 6 to 10 regular oil filter changes. It filters with a 1 micron rating.

If you read the article, I think you will see that it is a good thing.

Now, you may balk at the high price, but if it will clean the oil as advertised, then I think it is worth it.

Bypass oil filters can be put on almost anything.

 

[MossRoad]

Looks interesting... annnnd, I have some questions. :laughing:

"At normal operating RPMs the EaBP Filter will filter all of the oil in a typical five quart sump in less than 10 minutes."

I have 40 qts of oil, so does that mean it will filter my hydraulic system every (approximately) 80 minutes of operation?

The filter is $40.00. How much is the plumbing?

 

[J_J]

This system as is, is used in the motor oil system. However, I see no reason that one could not use a 1 micron bypass filter in the suction line, parallel with the 10 micron filter. I would think the bypass filter is only filtering about 5 % of the total oil drawn by the pump, and on our machines, sometimes it is not drawing very much fluid from the tank. Since out system is a closed loop system, the same fluid flows in a loop and is mixed with make up fluid . The reason for the makeup fluid, is some of the fluid is cooling and lubricating the hyd wheel motors, and feeding all four wheel motors case drain lines back to the pump case, and then out to the hyd cooler and then to tank. I would not know how to figure the time it would take to filter all the fluid in the tank. You are adding filtered fluid to unfiltered fluid, so the total volume would increase, probably on a logarithmic scale.

 

[J_J]

David, do you know how long it takes your normal hyd filter to filter 100 % of the fluid? It would be easy to figure that out if it were a steady draw, but the charge pump is only filtering about 10 % or the total fluid used by the VSP pump, and add fluid as necessary to load the circuit, and if you are moving real slow, time to filter will increase.

 

[smartguyz]

This certainly seems straightforward enough. I'd be curious where it could be mounted. There isn't a whole lot of room in the 'tub' on a 425. Any ideas?

-Rob

(I'm very familiar with these. I own a Chevy diesel truck, and the truck guys talk about bypass filters ALL the time... due to concerns about soot, etc.)

 

[MossRoad]

David, do you know how long it takes your normal hyd filter to filter 100 % of the fluid? It would be easy to figure that out if it were a steady draw, but the charge pump is only filtering about 10 % or the total fluid used by the VSP pump, and add fluid as necessary to load the circuit, and if you are moving real slow, time to filter will increase.

Well, my guess is it never filters all of it.

The main PTO pump and the steering/lift/aux PTO pump are always on. They are constantly sucking oil from the reservoir at a large GPM rate. They never turn off, ever. Only a very small amount of oil is being sucked through the filter as it goes to the makeup of the charge pump on the variable volume pump for the drive system. With the huge flow of oil the two PTO pumps pull, my guess is there is probably a lot of eddy currents in the flow in the hydraulic tank that prevent a lot of the oil from ever reaching the filter at all. I think the filter is just there to protect the variable volume pump and not really to filter all of the hydraulic oil in the entire system.

 

[BobRip]

Moss, I think the variable volume pump is the most sensitive pump to dirt so this would help.
If you put one of these on the PTO connections and had a bypass around it for most of the flow, you could get a lot of filtering. When there is no attachment, you could just connect it to the PTO connections. Then you turn the PTO on all of the time. Then when you are using the PTO, you run the fluid through this filter with bypass and to the attachment. Plenty of room to install it out front.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss, I think the variable volume pump is the most sensitive pump to dirt so this would help.
If you put one of these on the PTO connections and had a bypass around it for most of the flow, you could get a lot of filtering. When there is no attachment, you could just connect it to the PTO connections. Then you turn the PTO on all of the time. Then when you are using the PTO, you run the fluid through this filter with bypass and to the attachment. Plenty of room to install it out front.

I think that is a good idea. Although I can not mount anything out front, as I frequently force my way through brutal brush and trash. It would have to be in some protected location.

 

[BobRip]

I think that is a good idea. Although I can not mount anything out front, as I frequently force my way through brutal brush and trash. It would have to be in some protected location.

Could be removable. You probably don't need to do this all the time.

 

[cqaigy2]

Could be removable. You probably don't need to do this all the time.

Oooo, i can see a quick connect to the PTO circuit going on here.

 

[ponytug]

I'd just point out that this setup expects a 30psi (+/-) pressure differential and a rather limited flow (1/8gpm), as it is designed to be a parasitic oil drain from the oil pressure sender port.

Both could be rather hard to achieve on PT hydraulics. Surplus Hydraulics does sell some filters suitable for use at high pressure on the supply side and some high volume filters suitable for the return paths.

Nonetheless, it isn't clear to me how one would achieve 30psi on a return line without plumbing in a high flow relief valve set at 30. Ideas?

All the best,

Peter

 

[BobRip]

I'd just point out that this setup expects a 30psi (+/-) pressure differential and a rather limited flow (1/8gpm), as it is designed to be a parasitic oil drain from the oil pressure sender port.

Both could be rather hard to achieve on PT hydraulics. Surplus Hydraulics does sell some filters suitable for use at high pressure on the supply side and some high volume filters suitable for the return paths.

Nonetheless, it isn't clear to me how one would achieve 30psi on a return line without plumbing in a high flow relief valve set at 30. Ideas?

All the best,

Peter

Peter, I am not a hydraulics expert or even close. It seems to me you could use an orifice in parallel with a relief valve, also in parallel with the filter. Again, I understand fluid flow theory, but I don't know the practical components involved. J_J, any ideas?

 

[J_J]

There are some people that say that suction filters are bad, and I guess they have their reasons. Power-Trac has been using the 10 micron filter as a suction filter on the hydro transmissions, for about 30 years. I also think the filtering on the Power-Trac is not adequate, because it only filters one of the circuits. My PTO and steer pump draws directly out of the tank, although some of the fluid is filtered some of the time for the entire reservoir. I would venture to say, that just about all hydrostatic transmission have a suction line filter. Some equipment use tank suction filters of 150 to 200 microns. They say a suction filter will clog up and destroy the pump, and yes , it will, if not checked or changed often. There are indicators to indicate when to change filters, or a switch to prevent starting.

You could install a high pressure filter in the PTO circuit, and filter ever time you run the machine, They are not cheap, cost around $60 to $100.

Another idea, is to make yourself a hyd caddy, that has a small oil pump, pushing hyd fluid through a 10 micron filter in parallel with a 1 micron filter. and hook it into your system and let it run for 24 hrs. Once a week should thoroughly clean you hyd oil.

 

[ponytug]

Dear JJ,

Agreed. The upside to suction filters is that they keep gunk out of the pump. The downside is that they can have significant flow restrictions when the oil is cold or the filter clogged. When they are restricted, they are prone to degassing the fluid, which causes bad things (cavitation) downstream.

The fact that there is a debate is the answer that there isn't one answer. I think your idea of occasionally hooking up a finer filter is great- it would help get the oil really clean, and that is always good.

As Bob wrote, an inline orifice and relief would do it, but if the orifice plugged, you would have a high pressure situation and I worry about the safety issues.

All the best,

Peter

There are some people that say that suction filters are bad, and I guess they have their reasons. Power-Trac has been using the 10 micron filter as a suction filter on the hydro transmissions, for about 30 years. I also think the filtering on the Power-Trac is not adequate, because it only filters one of the circuits. My PTO and steer pump draws directly out of the tank, although some of the fluid is filtered some of the time for the entire reservoir. I would venture to say, that just about all hydrostatic transmission have a suction line filter. Some equipment use tank suction filters of 150 to 200 microns. They say a suction filter will clog up and destroy the pump, and yes , it will, if not checked or changed often. There are indicators to indicate when to change filters, or a switch to prevent starting.

You could install a high pressure filter in the PTO circuit, and filter ever time you run the machine, They are not cheap, cost around $60 to $100.

Another idea, is to make yourself a hyd caddy, that has a small oil pump, pushing hyd fluid through a 10 micron filter in parallel with a 1 micron filter. and hook it into your system and let it run for 24 hrs. Once a week should thoroughly clean you hyd oil.

 

[BobRip]

Dear JJ,



As Bob wrote, an inline orifice and relief would do it, but if the orifice plugged, you would have a high pressure situation and I worry about the safety issues.

All the best,

Peter

Peter, wouldn't the relief valve then kick in and give you the safety?

 

[SpringHollow]

We had a pretty good discussion on external filter carts a couple of years ago. I thought people had some very good comments:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/102333-filter-cart-tank-magnets-etc.html

Ken

 

[ponytug]

Yes, but... The filter is designed for 30 psi, while the hydraulics are upto 3000psi, or a factor of 100 more. So a relatively small error on the relief valve might still generate a catastrophic failure. (Just trying to keep everyone here alive and in one piece...I think it is a great group!)

As Ken pointed out above, the issues have been walked through before...It was a productive thread.

All the best,

Peter

Peter, wouldn't the relief valve then kick in and give you the safety?

 

[J_J]

Lets just back up here a sec. The suction filters are not made for high pressure. There are special filters to filter high pressure fluid. Some of the filter bypass settings on suction filters are 15, 20 30 psi, and no one would want to use these filters in a high pressure line. Without a doubt, they will come apart.

High pressure hydraulic filters - 414 MPa (60 000 psi), ASME, 316 SS - IVS-TESTER-CORPORATION - Hydraulic filter, Oil treatment

These filters will filter up to 500 psi, and up to 50 GPM.

http://www.directindustry.com/prod/baldwin-filter/hydraulic-filter-22198-373139.html

So if you want filters, they are out there. For the most part, I would think the filters are doing the job they were designed for. However, something like the filter caddy would probably not cost more than $150. If used weekly, it would allow the filter on the tractor or whatever to last much longer.

 

[SPYDERLK]

On Earth a suction filter bypass must be set at less than 15psi in order for it ever to bypass in a suction line.
larry

 

[Bob999]

I priced the filter carts a couple of years ago and found prices ranging from $1000 and up. Just a pump from Northern Hydraulics was $300+ as I recall.

If you can find one for $150 I would sure like to have the opportunity to buy one!