C-123 Engine

[TNSuperC]

From tractordata, the C123 was put into the Super C, 200, 230, and 240 tractors. The bore and stroke was the same in all however, the compression went from a 6:1 in the SC to 7.x:1 in the 240. What did they do to get the extra compression? Domed pistons? My SC service manual is the one from Jen Sales and covers more than just the C-123. It doesn't give any variation for the C-123 head. The only thing left is a different type of piston.

 

[farmall 55a case]

Don't know but I need one for my 130 farmall

 

[DJ54]

IH used what they called a Fire Crater piston. A domed piston with a recess. If you do a Google image search for fire crater pistons, there are more than several images of them.

I'd have to check the specs, but to get a couple more HP out of the C-123, they may have bumped the max. governed speed a couple hundred RPM's also.

 

[TNSuperC]

DJ54, you are right about the governed speed. According to tractordata, the SC and 200 were rated at 1400 rpm whereas the 230 was rated at 1800 rpm. However, the serial number placard on my SC has three lines. First line is model number. Second line is serial number. Third line is max rated rpms. Mine has 1815 stamped into that third line. I guess this means every tractor was rated for max rpm when it came off the assembly line. Although I've never seen the Nebraska tractor test data for the 240, the engine was rated at 2000 rpms. Why do you suppose they rated the rpms higher in the later year tractors?

Thanks for the info on Fire Craters. Didn't know that. I had read that folks wanting to tweak their C-123 had no options in terms of shaving the head since the valve clearance is already pretty close.

Has anyone tried putting oversized intake valves in one of these or porting and polishing the intake?

 

[DJ54]

Bumping the rpm's a bit is a cheap way to get a couple more horses. They did this back in the 30's when going from the F-12, to the F-14 tractors. Same engine, bumped up 200 r.p.m.

I guess it's always nice to have a few extra hp on a tractor this size, but they were designed to work with implements designed for them, and to do it days, even years on end with no problems.

There are kits the increase the bore to 3-1/4", and have been out for years. There may one of those in one of mine. Dad rebuilt it in about 1973, but not sure what he put in it. I know my other is the original 3-1/8", as I've had to replace the headgasket on it, and I measured it.

I'm sure some of the antique pullers in the smaller classes have their engines tricked out. What they have done, I'm not sure. But bet you wouldn't want to work them all day long.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

From tractordata, the C123 was put into the Super C, 200, 230, and 240 tractors. The bore and stroke was the same in all however, the compression went from a 6:1 in the SC to 7.x:1 in the 240. What did they do to get the extra compression? Domed pistons? My SC service manual is the one from Jen Sales and covers more than just the C-123. It doesn't give any variation for the C-123 head. The only thing left is a different type of piston.

Not sure about the SC, but the 230 (I have a '57 with FireCrater pistons), came with 3 different types of pistons, flats for sea leave, slightly domed for up to 4500 feet above sea level and significant dome for above 4500 ft. I'm not sure which domes I have but the fella who I bought if from a bunch of years ago said he dyno'd it at 32hp, which is about 4 more than it was rated for..I live at about 250 feet above sea level, so I'm guessing its the 4500 pistons...I don't believe they had any different heads just different pistons. BobG in VA

 

[TNSuperC]

Your point is well taken. The fact that many of these tractors are still being used, in my case 60 years after it was built, is verification enough of their design. If I need more horsepower, I should get a bigger tractor. I like the Super M, but it is a bit heavy for my trailer, guess I'd settle for an M or Super H.

 

[farmall 55a case]

Up until I got my new tractor last year I used a 49 farmall m for everything! Still have it in the process of restoring it for show!

 

[RickB]

You can take a fair bit off the head of a C-123. I used to pull a Super C and IIRC I shaved 0.100" off the head. Put a TISCO overbore kit in it and a C-135 camshaft. 36 PTO HP.

 

[TNSuperC]

Wow, that seems like alot. @ what RPM and are you saying 36 HP at the flywheel or PTO? Either way impressive.

 

[RickB]

Like I said 36 PTO HP. Observed @ 540 PTO RPM.

 

[DJ54]

That's interesting about the C-135 cam Rick. I went to Case/IH to compare the part numbers, but they have been down for maintenance for a few days, and STILL down...

Where did you find the lift/duration specs on the cams..?? Are they in the Blue Ribbon engine spec manual..?? I have a BR engine manual that covers several engines, but it's at the other farm.

I'm guessing just a longer duration..?? I just happen to have a C-135 cam and gear, and a spare C-123 waiting on an engine stand to be OH'd for an A, as a play toy for plowing days.

I'm wondering how much power increase you would get NOT shaving the head. I already have a NIB overbore kit just waiting to be installed. Too many irons in the fire now, for play things. But it would be sweet to build a little "sleeper", when the time comes...

 

[DJ54]

After doing some checking of part numbers yesterday, after finally being able to access Case/IH parts, I was quite surprised to see that the same cam was used in the C-123, up through the C-153 4 cyl. engines. And same 66tooth cam gear... Even the C-113 cams were replaced with the 353609R31 cam if a new one is needed. Could be the same lift, and duration, just a different part number..??

So I guess I'm asking Rick, why the C-135 cam..?? Unless you had it reground..??

 

[RickB]

I was told by an old-time IH mechanic that the 135 cam had better performance characteristics. So I bought one.

 

[TNSuperC]

Oh yeah...sorry. I flat glossed over that. So you got a 50% PTO HP increase simply by shaving the head and putting a different cam in. That is truly amazing. I would have thunk maybe 30% max! Thanks for the tip. I'm gonna have to get me another engine and tweak it.

 

[RickB]

So you got a 50% PTO HP increase simply by shaving the head and putting a different cam in. That is truly amazing.

That's not all I did to it. In fact, that's not even all that I've already told you that I did to it. You get to figure the rest out on your own.

 

[DJ54]

Well..., reckon' I'll just have to settle for the 3-1/4" overbore kit, and some cleaning up of the manifold ports.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

That's not all I did to it. In fact, that's not even all that I've already told you that I did to it. You get to figure the rest out on your own.

Rick...If you hang around C's, SC's, 200s, 230s, etc. long enough you will ultimately find out what the weak link in these units are...once you hit a certain horsepower/torque level you very well may find out the hard way....Oh yeah, "You get to figure the rest out on your own."....If you'd like to know you may ask politely....Not a sermon, just a thought. BobG in VA

 

[Soundguy]

Rick...If you hang around C's, SC's, 200s, 230s, etc. long enough you will ultimately find out what the weak link in these units are...once you hit a certain horsepower/torque level you very well may find out the hard way....Oh yeah, "You get to figure the rest out on your own."....If you'd like to know you may ask politely....Not a sermon, just a thought. BobG in VA

rick plainly stated what he did and what he got and the other poster missed it twice!

I don't feel bad one bit telling a person to go re-read what I've already typed.. and that's not a sermon..

 

[BobG_in_VA]

I don't care what Rick did, I said that once you reach a certain level of torque/HP on these units you are in for other issues....That's all I'll say...and you can call it a sermon if you like..