C.A.V. Injector pump problems?

gengine · May 27, 2009

I've got a Massey 165 with a Perkins AD4.203 diesel engine. The Injector pump is a C.A.V. pump. The whole problem started while clearing snow with the FEL. The tractor rpm's went through the roof, causing the head gasket to blow out. We got everything fixed, or so i thought, the tractor starts and runs really well, but the rpm's are still very very high. The throttle lever does nothing to control the rpm's. I have to pull out the kill knob half way to keep the engine under control. Does anybody know what is going on with this engine? All of the old farmers that I talk to around here say when a injector pump goes, it either sends fuel into the oil or it quits. And if it is the Injector pump, does anybody have a good one on hand they want to sell, or have a good place to send mine to have it rebuilt?

Willl · May 27, 2009

Just guessing here, might you be having a slight 'run away' engine problem ?

I mean, could you be sucking 'fuel/oil' from some place ?

banjodunn · May 27, 2009

G'day it sounds to me like you have got a broken govenor pull it off and get it o/hauled yes it will prob cost more than a s/hand unit but how good is it going to be, it is a fairly simple job to R&R if you are a bit handy with the spanners if not get a local mech to do it should only take about an hour. Dont forget to put new fiter/s on it when you put the pump on. Best of luck

Jon

gengine · May 27, 2009

Thanks for the swift replies. I haven't had it running enough to find out if I had a slight run away problem, but I dont think that is the case. The head gasket blew and all my coolant ended up in the oil. It seems I got lucky and the rest of the engine doesn't sound hurt, never did. Anyway, it hasn't been run enough to lower the oil level, and the exhaust is clear. I really think it has something to do with either the throttle or governor linkage inside the pump itself. Since it already doesnt work, I am thinking about pulling on some latex loves and taking it apart. Can't hurt anything now I guess. If I were to send it off to be o-hauled, the nearest place is in Ogden, Ut. The rep I talked to informed me it was an automatic $500 just to take it apart. So that is what I am looking at.

gengine · May 27, 2009

banjodunn said:
G'day it sounds to me like you have got a broken govenor pull it off and get it o/hauled yes it will prob cost more than a s/hand unit but how good is it going to be, it is a fairly simple job to R&R if you are a bit handy with the spanners if not get a local mech to do it should only take about an hour. Dont forget to put new fiter/s on it when you put the pump on. Best of luck

Jon

Just a quick question, what do you mean by filters and spanners? If your talking about the usual fuel filters, they were done the other day. Ten minutes run time on the both of them. I've already taken the governor cover off and can't see any problem, therefore, I think it is whatever it connects to on the inside. Is it possible that the return line could be plugged, forcing the fuel to go to the injectors instead of back to the fuel filter?

Scotty370 · May 27, 2009

Spanners = English/Aussie = wrenches! (Typically open end)

gengine · May 28, 2009

Oops...I think I knew that. Worked with a few Aussies in the middle east.

banjodunn · May 28, 2009

G'day sorry sometimes i forget that you guys don't understand proper english

it is possible that you could have a blocked return but that is easy to check take the return line off and run it into a container. I was not being smart about filters as you would be surprised the amount of people that will change engine oil and filters religously but not worry about the fuel filters until it wont go

. I still think that you have got a prob in the govenor maybe the metering valve is stuck i would not go into it that far unless you have got a test bench in the shed to check it when you have it back together or you may find the stop lever won't stop it

. Best of luck going in that deep is best left to the experts

gengine · May 28, 2009

I read somewhere else on the 'net about putting some Automatic Transmission Fluid in the second fuel filter and cranking the motor until the ATF is in the pump. Then I guess let it sit a day or so, and then open all the injector lines and crank fuel back into the pump. It is supposed to free up anything that might be stuck. The thing is, the machine ran great for three or four hours before all the problems started. I don't really see how anything can all of a sudden get stuck "wide open" when it wasn't wide open to begin with. That's why I was wondering about the return line being plugged. As for the filters, I was just making sure that there weren't any little screens or anything other than the primary and secondary filters. I thought I had a truck covered once with a fuel filter change, but there was a second one on the carb. But so far everything points to the injector pump, and because it already isn't working right, or so I think, I might take it apart anyway. Who knows, might learn something.

gengine · Jun 4, 2009

Does anybody know if the Lucas Cav injector pump is the same on a Massey 180 with a perkins diesel. I haven't seen this parts tractor yet, but the picture of the pump looks the same. The guy who owns it says I can have anything that I want off the tractor, but I have to take the whole tractor or none of it. So I don't want to take all the extra junk if its not going to work for me.

gengine · Jul 12, 2009

Hope you don't mind that I'm adding to this, but I figured out the whole problem today. There is a little adapter thing that mounts to the driveshaft inside the pump, and the other end bolts to the timing gear. Makes it really easy to remove and replace the pump without worrying about the timing. Getting to the point, the bolt that holds this adapter to the pump had come loose and fallen out, and was rattling around the timing gear. I bought a new bolt, put everything back together, and presto, tractor runs great. I hope that this will help somebody somewhere down the road. I know that I get a lot of help from this site. The newest peice of machinery we have is a '78 j.d. baler. Needless to say, we do a lot of mechanic work.

historichouseguy · Jul 12, 2009

Hello, new here.a question while you are on the injector pump subject. I have a 2200 with a CAV pump. Last time i ran it in December the fuel was leaking pretty hard out of the pump at the top near the linkage for the shut off and throttle. Fired it up this weekend and worked it several time and it has not leaked yet? Anyone have any explanation? I also wonder if there may be some fix other than a rebuild should it start to leak again.
Thanks,
SCM

gengine · Jul 13, 2009

If its anything like mine, it just sounds like new gaskets. For identification, My pump had a metal tag almost on the bottom of the pump with all sorts of numbers. If its not leaking now, maybe they swelled up again and are holding tight. Just keep an eye on it. If its coming form the linkage itself, which I got from reading your post a second time, mine has rubber grommets that go through the governor cover. If I can find a pic, I'll post it. If your fuel lines are on the top, then I may not be of much help. Somebody here will post with more accurate info.

banjodunn · Jul 13, 2009

G'day there are 'o' rings in the housing where the shafts come through if you have a local bepco dealer they do a kit which gives you the 'o' rings and the gasket pretty easy to fit just make sure you take note of what hole the spring is in ( you will see what i mean when you go to lift the cover)

Jon

gengine · Jul 14, 2009

Here's that pic of a Pump somiliar to mine. Banjodunn is correct about paying attention to where the gorvernor springs are. This pump is on multiple machines, from CAT to Allis and so on. The spring location changes a lot of the function. I hope nobody minds that I took this pic from the net. Found it with a google search.

gengine · Jul 14, 2009

BTW, the two odd nuts kinda centered are the only two that you need to take off. That whole cover comes off, look at the spring location, then you take off the nuts above the throttle linkage and the kill knob linkage, the linkage comes off, then all you do is punch the remaining parts from the top. Change your seals and gaskets and there you go! A dry injector pump. On the 165, its really easy to do.

amrepass · Sep 13, 2010

gengine,Is that bolt that holds the adapter thing, an allen head bolt?

Yoseph · Nov 2, 2010

Thanks GENGINE i did the job, my CAV injection pump was leaking at the shut of lever, i get the gasket kit from diesel shop, it takes me about an hour to do on my IHb275, very easy to do, i want to add some tips, to help others, the most important thing you have to do is to be carefull not to drop foreign matters in the VAC pump it will damage the plunger and cost about 500$ to rebuilt, i used a brake cleaner to remove dust and grease from the pump, clean clothes, my compressor to blow the remaining dust..........and you are done

gengine · Jan 25, 2011

amrepass said:
gengine,Is that bolt that holds the adapter thing, an allen head bolt?

I'm sure by now you've found out, but if anybody else looking needs to know, on my Massey, yes it was an allen head bolt. Less than a buck at the local hardware store. Good luck!!