Calculating gpm

[JATO_RaT]

Interesting Bird, around here, it's pretty much 6" and up that use the "O" ring joint system. After about 8", gluing and sliding a 20' length of pipe with that much surface area is pretty tough. I've done up to 10" with the prime/glue method and not only do you need a tractor in stand by besides pry bars to help push, but the fumes from the primer and glue are pretty intoxicating. Around here, 2" is never a water main line and is typical for a supply to a single residence with some acerage. I suppose thats because here we irrigate all summer and fall. Water mains are almost always 6" and up. Rat...

 

[JATO_RaT]

Chillimau, even if you bury the pipe 2', is the clay still a problem? Rat...

 

[Bird]

Yep, Rat, you live in a different world. You wouldn't believe some of the things our water system has (I was on the board of directors for 2 years). There was no rural water sytem in this immediate area prior to 1970 and still no irrigated farming. The few people who lived out here had wells; poor quality and bad tasting. When the system was created, minimal cost was the main consideration and a lot of the farmers were hoping the area would not develop; didn't want more people moving in. So some bad decisions were made. I'm on a 2" water main, but a mile north or me, they tapped into that main with a 1" line and ran it a half mile to a house there several years ago (at that homeowner's expense). In the following years, along that half mile, they tapped into that 1" line and added 6 more houses that were built along that road./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif The same thing happened in several other places. So we have some members on the system who don't have enough water pressure to take a decent shower. State law requires maintaining a minimum of 20 psi, or send everyone a "boil water" notice if it drops below that. Fortunately, I'm at a location in which the only time I've actually checked the water pressure, it was 84 psi.

And the 2" main I'm on is 2' deep, runs right across my yard, and it burst and had to be repaired in my yard last January because of the huge cracks we get in dry weather that disappear in wet weather (a yardstick frequently will not reach the bottom of cracks that are 2" wide).

Bird

 

[patrickg]

What a great thread!!!!!!!!!! Timely as well. I have given right of way for a newly formed rural water district to lay pipe on my edges. Actually they been doing the politics for aout 5 years or so but are finally laying pipe, a 6 inch rubber gasket at every joint down the highway right of way (my northern boundary) and 2 inch down the section line on my western boundary. My mom's new house will be tied into the 6 inch with a two inch line aout 300 ft long. For 500 dollars (membership or whatever) you get a meter box with a meter. Monthly minimum is supposed to be $30 (we'll see, nothing else went to plan) and is to be the amount of water an average family of 4 would use. I think pressure will be a lot less than 75-100lbs, I think I recall a guarantee of 40lbs. I have a choice of paying another 500 for a second meter and running an independent line or extending my mom's via existing line and then extending that to my site. Gotta think about this a while.

They are running 2 inch down the section line for a mile. There are currently 3 families at end of section line and one half way down. We would be the fifth family on that 2 inch line but attached most upstream of all. I have been granting space on my property for the prime contractor to store materials and equipment and will get something in trade instead of rent. One item agreed to is a trench to my mom's house with 2 inch line in it from the meter to her foundation (about 300 ft). No big deal with the equipment and manpower they have but would be a chore for me.

Septic note: Oklahoma is about to require soil testing by liscensed schooled soil testers in liu of perk testing. Gonna be a pain, gonna be a lot of folks paying more for septic systems from here on out. I have perk test recorded with DEQ for my site (got a twofer when doing my mom's) but there is a chance they won't "grandfather" it since the system isn't "in" yet.

Patrick

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>paying another 500 for a second meter and running an independent line or extending my mom's via existing line</font color=blue>

It's definitely different everywhere you go, but one hard and fast rule here is never having two "residences" on one meter. And to get a meter installed costs about $1,400 here.

Bird

 

[patrickg]

Bird, That is typically true here as well, one family-one meter. As both sites are on the same parcel of land A N D it is the same family, they are accomodating. They treat it like a mother-in-law cottage by "the main house" although it is 3 bed, 3 bath, 2200 sqft, and 1/4 mile from my site for which I haven't had time to design the main house (soon, isn't that what long winter nights are for?)

What they are very adamant about is the issue of interconnection of private water sources with rural water. Rightly so, water of unknown quality and safety shouldn't be introduced into the rural water system. Even if it was only a microbiologic problem and not chemical there might not be enough chlorine and time to kill the bad guys prior to delivery to a neighbor. Mom's house is on my well now and will be connected to rural water as soon after the main line (6 inch) passes us on the highway as is practical (they are within a couple miles and heading this way). They don't want any Rube Goldberg interconnects with backflow preventers or the like, they want physical separation. I, no doubt, like others, was planning on some valving to retain source selection capability but that is a big no no so I'll devise a switching system with unions or the like to do the switching with no possibility of simultaneous connection to both sources or of interconnecting the two sources, rural and private, at any time. Too bad, I don't recall ever seeing a single pole double throw valve.

Any comments regarding water softener issues such as these: How much salt will a septic system tolerate? How succeptable to freezing is the softener unit? I don't think the brine tank would be much of a problem and heater tape would protect the external plumbing but I'm not familliar with the internals. Do manufacturers offer heater kits or winterization options besides draining for the season or is everything accessible for DIY heater tape? I ask these things here because frankly the typical telephone answering person at a sales org has no clue and or will put out bogus info.

It has been decades since I had a softener and that was in sunny SOCAL on city sewar so I never had to get smart and the design and layout might have evolved a bit in 40 yrs. I know there is an expensive substitute for salt (non sodium based) available for softeners now, if you choose to use it. On subject of softeners... If you are a low sodium person and reduce your sodium intake (one meal a week at a fast food chain will probably supply all the sodium you need) then be cautious of softened water as it is typically quite high in sodium. After all that is how it works (salt version) sodium ions are exchanged for calcium ions so calcium (hardness) is removed from the water but is replaced with sodium. I plumbed my ice maker to use Reverse Osmosis water to avoid the sodium and still not have "snow storms of calcium falling from the cubes.

Patrick

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>treat it like a mother-in-law cottage by "the main house"</font color=blue>

That sounds a little more sensible than our water company. I had to have a second meter put in when I moved my parents' little mobile home onto my property. We built my youngest brother's home on 10 acres, but the other brother is single and lives in a motorhome parked on the same property; no sewer connection; he just drives it a half mile down the road to the dump station in the campground to empty the holding tanks. But the water company required them to put in a separate meter because they consider the motorhome to be a "residence". I know one guy who built a "breezeway" to connect his house to his mother-in-law's house in order for it to qualify as "one" residence to avoid putting in a second meter.

Bird

 

[patrickg]

Bird, That sounds so typical of a petty boo-rock-racy. Breezeway? Hmmm. I have a $13.7k bid for a 10x33 breezeway to overlap mom's detached garage and her util room (back door) and I allready have the slab poured. So a quarter mile long breezeway to connect the two houses might get expensive.

We have the breeze today, enough to fill anyone's breezeway. I think I could fly a cast iron kite on a winch cable. While mindlessly doing some manual labor (moving/arranging boxes of "stuff") I was speculating on a suspension design with sufficient travel to permit a land yacht to traverse my pasture and not jar my teeth out.

Patrick

 

[Bird]

Patrick, I was first told that the one residence per meter rule was state law, and when I challenged that, and did a little research of my own, found that it was a requirement for a federally backed loan that was used to build the initial system in 1970 (a loan long ago paid off). However, they have now applied for another loan to do some much needed upgrading of the system. The problem gets to be in the interpretation because of some poorly worded rules. In spite of very strict enforcement of the one residence, one meter rule, a residence and a business have always been allowed to share a meter; i.e., a couple of country convenience store/service station combinations, a feed store and residence, a nursery and residence, etc. A lot of people object to that and think a business should also have a separate meter from the residence, but no one has come up with an acceptable definition of "business"; i.e., would a rancher have to have a separate meter to water cattle, or would a person have to have a separate meter to water his vegetable garden if he sold any of his produce?/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif And while my brothers just decided to not get involved in any fights and just had another meter put in, there's no way they could have been forced to do so had they only filled the water tank on the motor home when needed instead of having a hose hooked up to it. Politics do get strange around here at times./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[JATO_RaT]

Bird, why do they put in such small water mains? Once you get the trench dug etc, you have half the battle done. Frictional loses in 2" are huge over 1000'. There will be no hydrants available for fire as 2" would do nothing for that, its suprising to me that a water district bothers with 2".

They are putting in a new water line near our area, its 3', that's 3 foot in diameter and several 10 million gallon storage tanks and one 40 million gallon tank. They supply water to homes in the area and provide fire protection as well. Rat...