Can I legally tow a 20,000 lb. trailer with my F-450?

[civesnedfield]

I guess it is a matter of integrity as well, some truck designs are just better than others. This is what I'm interested in, a truck that handles (legal) a surprising amount of weight for its size. For example, I was surprised that the Nissan Titan weighs about 5,000lbs and has a "maximum payload" of 9,400lbs, almost twice its weight.

BTW, If you want to feel wagging try driving an empty semi in the rockies.

jmf

I have the Titan and it will do all they say it will. Currently I use a 2 horse trailer to take beef critters to the processor. They usually tip the scales at 1,100 to 1,200 a piece plus the weight of the trailer. The Titan pulls just fine, not gonna say I don't even know the trailer is back there, but the truck does the job.
If you are looking at one wait till the 08's come out. They are increasing the bed capacity by 500 pounds,which is ok but the really great news is that it will be available with an 8' bed. That is the one feature I wish I had.

 

[Builder]

I guess it is a matter of integrity as well, some truck designs are just better than others. This is what I'm interested in, a truck that handles (legal) a surprising amount of weight for its size. For example, I was surprised that the Nissan Titan weighs about 5,000lbs and has a "maximum payload" of 9,400lbs, almost twice its weight.

BTW, If you want to feel wagging try driving an empty semi in the rockies.

jmf

There's no way a Titan has a "maximum payload of 9,400lbs". That would mean the truck is capable of carrying 9,400 lbs in the cargo bed and the passenger compartment. Furthermore, if your truck weighs a scant 5,000lbs (which I'd doubt because then it would be stripped) then with a 9,400lb payload, it would mean the truck fully loaded would have a GVWR of 14,400lbs. "Payload" is usually a term referring to a truck's carrying capacity in the truck itself.

I think what you're trying to say is that it can tow up to 9,400lbs. What your truck can tow is different from your truck's "payload". That falls under the classification of GCWR. You have to look in your owner's manual to find your GCWR. My guess is it will be ~17,000lbs.

You also have to remember those are MAX capacities. All those capacities are reduced by the extra weight created by items such as passengers, cargo in the truck, 4x4 front axles, bigger tires and other options all penalize your truck's "payload" and "trailer towing capacity".

Manufacturer's like to put the maximum capacities in the back of the sales brochure, but usually fail to mention that the loaded-up 4x4 versions most of us like to drive actually tow and carry less weight than a stripped-down 4x2 with the same drivetrain.

 

[jmfox]

It is towing capacity, and only the 4x2 XE and SE are rated at "9,400." Even the "Record Breaker" new Ford F-450 can only handle a payload up to 6,120 lbs and conventional towing up to 16,000. As to GCWR, don't forget to reduce the capacity by the weight of the truck and tailer as well as its passengers, cargo etc. Truck specs are not uniformly presented so it is difficult to make comparisons. It would be nice if there was a list that had a column for truck weight and another for GCWR for all makes and models (option packages). If there were, a purchaser could see what trucks are available to tow his or her 5 -8 ton machine with a regular license. The only other variable would be trailer weight and payload capacity. How nice it would be to have a comparison chart for trailers as well. If someone knows of such a list please post the link here. Thank you.

jmf

 

[Builder]

I think that list would be useless since there's so many variations in truck packages.

Best thing to do is weigh your truck on a scale and be done with it. I wouldn't trust anything in a sales brochure. They're never correct.

 

[jmfox]

Best thing to do is weigh your truck on a scale and be done with it. I wouldn't trust anything in a sales brochure. They're never correct.

It would be easier to look at the data, rather than weighing every truck from every manufacturer before making a purchase. Maybe after you do your homework you can check it out on a scale.

jmf

 

[Builder]

It would be easier to look at the data, rather than weighing every truck from every manufacturer before making a purchase. Maybe after you do your homework you can check it out on a scale.

jmf

You can look at "data" till your eyes go crossed. The problem is, just like was said before, the "data" is frequently presented in trucks that are stripped and 4x2 with no back seat, a manual transmission, 100lb woman driving and 1 gallon of fuel in the tank.
Believe me, it's true. You're naive if you think it's not.

How many guys here buy a stripped, manual 4x2? A loaded 4x4 auto can weigh 1,000lbs more thereby reducing your GCWR or GVWR by a substantial amount. Add a diesel and it's even lower.

 

[jmfox]

I wonder if the police believe the vehicle capacity weights when they are writing a ticket for a driver exceeding their license class. I guess if you were an 80 lb women with 2 quarts of gas in the tank you could argue the data is not valid. When it comes to enforcement, the data from a brochure (that is derived by the same source as the weight plate and registration) rules.

jmf

 

[Builder]

I wonder if the police believe the vehicle capacity weights when they are writing a ticket for a driver exceeding their license class. I guess if you were an 80 lb women with 2 quarts of gas in the tank you could argue the data is not valid. When it comes to enforcement, the data from a brochure (that is derived by the same source as the weight plate and registration) rules.

jmf

Now that's downright funny.

I've been driving heavy trucks for a long, long time. I've been pulled over & weighed 50+ times in my life as a CDL driver.

I can tell you very confidently that the MVCE cops use portable scales (or you drive into a weigh station) and they write your ticket if you're overweight based on what the scale says what you're registered for and what your truck's door jamb sticker GVWR or GCWR says.

They could give a rat's butt about the nice pretty Nissan Titan brochure you present to them.

They would probably get quite a laugh out of it back at the squad room, though.

 

[jmfox]

If you thought I suggested carrying around a brochure to show the State Police you missed the weigh station and hit the moon. When the Police look at the "door jam sticker" do you tell them it's only "data" that's based on a 100 lb woman and a gallon of gas? When it comes to licensing limitations you don't need a scale, you just check the DATA and compare it to the operator's license class. This same data can be found in many forms, but the door plate is the one that is required, and it is only data that establishes GCWR as far as the Police are cocerned. It is not determined using a portable road side scale. That is what many here believe is unfair, arguing that a vehicle (including trailer) should be weighed to determine if CDL requirements rather than data based on an assumption and arbitrary conditions.

jmf

 

[Builder]

If you thought I suggested carrying around a brochure to show the State Police you missed the weigh station and hit the moon. When the Police look at the "door jam sticker" do you tell them it's only "data" that's based on a 100 lb woman and a gallon of gas?

No. What you failed to understand is that the door jamb sticker on every commercial truck with a body is installed by a licenced body installer. Take for example my GMC3500 truck. It has a utility body on it. Most commercial trucks are outfitted with a box, dump, stake, utility body, etc. The installer places a sticker in the doorjamb that informs the public of what the trucks' GVWR is after the body is installed.

If there's no body, like on a semi tractor or in your case, a light duty pickup, then YES, the manufacturer's door jamb sticker provides VITAL information on GVWR and axle ratings. Those stickers don't have and consideration for weight of driver and how much gas or other cargo one is carrying since they don't consider anything about PAYLOAD, just GVWR.

When you are pulled over & weighed, the cops get your weight, then compare it to what you're registered for and what your vehicles' GVWR & GCWR are. It's that simple.

When it comes to licensing limitations you don't need a scale, you just check the DATA and compare it to the operator's license class. This same data can be found in many forms, but the door plate is the one that is required, and it is only data that establishes GCWR as far as the Police are cocerned. It is not determined using a portable road side scale. That is what many here believe is unfair, arguing that a vehicle (including trailer) should be weighed to determine if CDL requirements rather than data based on an assumption and arbitrary conditions.

jmf

You're talking in circles here. I never implied a scale determines GVWR. Do you think that as a licenced commercial driver I haven't been through this personally many times? You had implied that the law will consider the "data" you speak of in a sales brochure as data that could be considered to plead your case to the police. I said doesn't work that way.

Many "door plates" as you call them don't even have GCWR's on them. Look at yours. My guess is it only has front & rear axle ratings and GVWR.