Can I legally tow a 20,000 lb. trailer with my F-450?

[Builder]

It would be easier to look at the data, rather than weighing every truck from every manufacturer before making a purchase. Maybe after you do your homework you can check it out on a scale.

jmf

No manufacturer can possibly give you "data" on every version of truck they build. Trucks with lots of extra equipment weigh significantly more than stripped versions. These trucks are not the ones you see in the "data" in a sales brochure. The manufacturers are smarter than that. They present you with the most stripped versions to pump-up their truck's weight carrying capacities so they look better compared to the competition.

If you buy a loaded Nissan Titan believing your "data" in the sales brochure is going to match a loaded Titan, you're in for a BIG disappointment. What you will find is that it will carry & tow much less than the stripped versions in the sales brochure "data".

That's why if the cargo or towing capacity is important for a buyer, he most certainly should weigh the truck, or ask the dealer to provide certified empty weight, to you. Otherwise you could buy a truck, hook-up your camper or trailer, and find you are grossly overweight and vulnerable to a large fine from the cops.

Or, you could just believe the "data" in the glossy sales brochure and have blind faith that it's correct.

 

[jmfox]

I'm not sure why you are fixated on the data in a brochure, you must of had a bad experience. As for me, I've spent my years driving junk of all sizes and brochures are hard to find for 20 year old vehicles. I think you assume that all data is derived from sales campaigns. Even if this is true, it is a good place to start. When you get to the dealer, for the lucky ones who buy new vehicles, you will have the opportunity to check the plate and do a little math. When it comes to GCWR, you have no choice but to rely on data, and when it comes to license classes, reliable or not, you are best advised to use the same data that the police use to determine whether the empty truck and trailer you're driving out of the show room exceeds your license limits.

jmf

 

[milkman]

I'm not sure why you are fixated on the data in a brochure, you must of had a bad experience. jmf

I think your mention of the word Nissan Titan is what got him fired up.

 

[xxxsandman]

My truck (99 Dodge 3500 Diesel 4x4) has been re-painted at some point in it's life. There is NO sticker in the door jam. It appears to have been removed by whoever re-painted it, heck it may not even be the original door as far as I know. What happens in this situation? I don't know what my GCVW or GVWR is. Is there somewhere I can find this out? How will the weight cops know this with no sticker to go off of? I have scalled around 25,500 fully loaded with a 14k dump trailer.

And just so I understand this, from what I'm reading it is ILLEGAL to even tow a empty 20k gooseneck trailer behind a 1 ton pickup, because pretty much ANY current 1 ton pickup is going to weigh over 6k pounds empty by itself? If that's the case, I see illegal towing EVERYDAY here in Oklahoma and have done it myself several times. Does a farm tag get you past this rule, as long as you aren't over 26k of actual combined weight or must your potential rated capacity still remain under 26k?

 

[Gamma]

xxxsandman,

You could probably use the VIN number tag mounted on your dashboard to somehow find out what the ratings are for your truck. Maybe a local Dodge dealer could look it up for you?

About your question of towing a 20K goose neck... I originally started this thread because I was uncertain about the legalities of towing a 20K GN trailer with a 9,330 lb F-450 that has a GCWR of 26K lbs here in Missouri... and I'm still confused even after reading all the responses. lol

My current understanding is that I can just simply put license plates on my truck that will cover the actual combined weight of the trailer, load and truck and I'll be legal; but if I was involved in an accident I'd be screwed by the attorneys because I was over my GCWR of the truck.

I went to an equipment demo. last week and when the salesman & I pulled up to the site under the powerlines where the operator of the equipment had parked his truck and trailer, I noticed immediately that he was using a F-350 dually crew cab to tow a GN trailer that had a 15,000 lb brush mulching machine on it. I don't know what the GCWR of the F-350 was, but I'd be surprised if it was enough to tow that trailer with the machine on it. I did look at the manufacturers plate on the trailer and to my surprise it was rated for 22K.

 

[xxxsandman]

I recently bought an L48 at a dealer type monthly equipment auction. While loading my L48 backhoe, I was completely shocked as to what some of the dealers was loading on HUGE trailers behind their 1 tons. Some had bigger, F450 and F550 type trucks, but most was 1 tons. 4 or 5 tractors was not uncommon on a 30'+ gooseneck! They did some interesting tricks to get them all to fit! No question in my mind their weight was way out of line and some was from Texas and had hundreds of miles to travel! They may very well of had a CDL, but I would have bet a hamburger that every one of them was over their GCRW for their truck and trailer!

 

[Z-Michigan]

And just so I understand this, from what I'm reading it is ILLEGAL to even tow a empty 20k gooseneck trailer behind a 1 ton pickup, because pretty much ANY current 1 ton pickup is going to weigh over 6k pounds empty by itself?

Same question - I am very confused. I thought that if the truck's GCWR is 25,999 or less than you don't need a CDL, regardless of the trailer's GVWR, as long as the actual weight of your total rig is also under 25,999 (and within your rated GCWR).

I don't think farm plates exist in my state, otherwise I would be looking into that option.

 

[jmfox]

Vehicles with GVWR or, if towing a trailer, a GCWR greater than 26,000 lbs. require CDL. (Remember the "R" stands for rating). So if either is 2601 or more lbs you need a CDL. Once this is satisfied, and you actually put some weight on the truck or trailer, then you have to worry about exceeding vehicle and road limits -the scales.

Today I was reminded of this thread when a Toyota Tundra pulled up next to me at the light advertising towing capacity on a trailer that contained 10,000 lbs of Olympic plates. I also noticed that the trailer was beefed up but extremely small. No doubt they were trying to keep the trailer weight at a minimum so not to exceed the Tundra's GCWR with a payload of 10,000 lbs. See if you notice this mobile ad in your town. I would like the trailer to haul my ASV.

jmf

 

[BarryinMN]

Same question - I am very confused. I thought that if the truck's GCWR is 25,999 or less than you don't need a CDL, regardless of the trailer's GVWR, as long as the actual weight of your total rig is also under 25,999 (and within your rated GCWR).

I don't think farm plates exist in my state, otherwise I would be looking into that option.

I think the confusion starts at 10K trailer commercial use. Different States have different requirements.

Here is the MN info site CVO Online: Commercial Vehicle Operators

 

[xxxsandman]

OK, so as long as your trucks GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is not more then 26,000lbs then a CDL is not needed, no matter what the trailer rating you are pulling has? Of course you can't be loaded heavier then your trucks GCWR even though your trailer has more capacity (like a 20k rated trailer couldn't be loaded to max).

That means anyone should be able to pull ANY trailer with their 1 ton without having a CDL, so long as they don't exceed their trucks GCWR, which is less then 26,000.

If this is the case then that makes a lot more sense to me.