Can I legally tow a 20,000 lb. trailer with my F-450?

[Gamma]

This is one of those topics that have never seemed to had a definite answer when discussed on a web forum, but here I go with it anyway. lol

Basically I want to know if I can LEGALLY tow a 20,000 lb. goose neck trailer with my 2000 Ford F-450?

The F-450 has a GVWR of 15,000 lbs., but I don't know what the GCWR for it is though. I just had the truck weighed yesterday and the weight was 9,330 lbs. with a full tank of diesel fuel.

The trailer in question would be a 20'+5' goose neck trailer with a GVWR of 20,000 lbs. and an actual weight of 5,440 lbs..

The load for the trailer would be an ASV RC-100 with a Fecon Bull Hog mounted on it for a combined weight of 12,440 lbs. I'm also considering a grapple rake for an additional weight of 820 lbs..

Here's a little chart that I made:
Avail. Capacity
GVWR of trailer 20,000 lbs.
Weight of trailer 5,440 lbs. 14,560
RC100 + Bull Hog 12,440 lbs. 2,120
Grapple rake, 73" 820 lbs. 1,300

I haven't even figured in the additional weight of 100 gallons of diesel fuel that I'd put in the transfer tank mounted on the flat bed of my truck, or misc. things like chains, load binders, extra fluids, grease guns, tools and so on.

So... can I legally tow this trailer if it was maxed out at it's full 20,000 lbs.?

If the trailer was maxed out at 20K, that would definitely put me over 26,000 lbs.. How's that going to effect things as far as licensing the truck, trailer and a CDL?

I don't doubt that the truck and trailer could safely handle the loads, I'm wondering about the legalities of it all though.

Thanks!!!

 

[Gamma]

Well, I don't understand it, but the chart that I inserted looked fine when I entered it and also when I try to edit it. It gets all messed up when I post it though.

The weights in the 2nd column are the available trailer capacity leftover after subtracting the weight in the 1st column. It's a running total as you go down.

 

[BarryinMN]

Your chart should transfer tongue weight to the truck as well.

CDL log book may be as simple as an office time card if you stay local. Chck with your state DOT.

 

[Builder]

This is one of those topics that have never seemed to had a definite answer when discussed on a web forum, but here I go with it anyway. lol

Basically I want to know if I can LEGALLY tow a 20,000 lb. goose neck trailer with my 2000 Ford F-450?

The F-450 has a GVWR of 15,000 lbs., but I don't know what the GCWR for it is though. I just had the truck weighed yesterday and the weight was 9,330 lbs. with a full tank of diesel fuel.

The trailer in question would be a 20'+5' goose neck trailer with a GVWR of 20,000 lbs. and an actual weight of 5,440 lbs..

The load for the trailer would be an ASV RC-100 with a Fecon Bull Hog mounted on it for a combined weight of 12,440 lbs. I'm also considering a grapple rake for an additional weight of 820 lbs..

Here's a little chart that I made:
Avail. Capacity
GVWR of trailer 20,000 lbs.
Weight of trailer 5,440 lbs. 14,560
RC100 + Bull Hog 12,440 lbs. 2,120
Grapple rake, 73" 820 lbs. 1,300

I haven't even figured in the additional weight of 100 gallons of diesel fuel that I'd put in the transfer tank mounted on the flat bed of my truck, or misc. things like chains, load binders, extra fluids, grease guns, tools and so on.

So... can I legally tow this trailer if it was maxed out at it's full 20,000 lbs.?

If the trailer was maxed out at 20K, that would definitely put me over 26,000 lbs.. How's that going to effect things as far as licensing the truck, trailer and a CDL?

I don't doubt that the truck and trailer could safely handle the loads, I'm wondering about the legalities of it all though.

Thanks!!!

In MOST states, including mine, you can tow as much as you want so long as the trailer & truck combined do not exceed 26,000lbs. If your trailer weighs 20,000 lbs, then your truck would have to weight 6,000lbs to be legal. That is not the case with your situation since your truck weighs 9,000+ lbs. Sounds like you'll be well in excess of 26,000lbs, which would require a class A CDL.

You are also in excess of the GCWR of your truck, which in your case is probably 26,000lbs. Ford does make a HD trailering option for the 450 which bumps it up to either 28 or 30K, but we don't know if you have that package. Even if you did, you'd be over the CDL limit and very close to the F-450 HD trailering GCWR.

If you exceed Ford's GCWR of your truck and you're involved in an accident, you'd have a lot of explaining to do since it is assumed that as the owner of the truck you are required to have knowledge of your trucks' GCWR. If overloading your truck caused an accident or a knowledgeable plaintiff/lawyer can prove it was a contributing reason, I'd say you'd be up a creek without a paddle.

Anyway, I'm sure you're in excess of the limit of a standard driver's licence and most likely well in excess of the GCWR of your 450.

 

[dbear]

Here's a link to an "official" Ford towing guide:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2002/2002_SD_F350_550.pdf

According to it, the answer is "no." You'll notice this is for '02 models, but the front page did not offer anything older.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2002/2002_default.asp

 

[Gamma]

Here's a link to an "official" Ford towing guide:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2002/2002_SD_F350_550.pdf

According to it, the answer is "no." You'll notice this is for '02 models, but the front page did not offer anything older.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2002/2002_default.asp

I've noticed that they only go back to the 2002 model year too.

 

[George2615]

The truck will probably tow it and stop it with the proper brakes. The weight of the truck plus a fully loaded trailer puts you above the 26,001 requirement for a CDL. I'd agree with dbear, builder, and the chart that you couldn't legally tow 20K with your truck.

 

[John White]

In ohio here is how it was explained to me. My truck is a 5500 GMC with a gvw rating of 19000. Unloaded weight is 8700. My trailer is rated at 14000, empty it weights 2500. I have used F350 and simular hd pickups over the years and they just do not provide enough braking abililty, even with bakes on all 4 wheels on trailer. My little dozer weighs 10,000, fully loaded, truck 8700 trailer 2500 dozer 10000. a total of 19,500lbs. I went through a weigh check point (dozer was not on trailer). My combined weight was 95000 across the scale. They pulled me in and give me a tilcket which cost $150. He said my truck was rated at 19000 and my trailer was rated at 14000 which could put me over CDL if fully loaded. My truck would not pull 33000 lbs I tried to explain and would be right back where I started from a truck with not enough braking ability, making it unsafe in a sudden stop. He could care less about safety. I didnt have a cdl so he made me unhook my trailer and leave it. I went home and got my little Ford ranger, and it just fried his but when I showed up to get my trailer. Totaly legal (but not safe) . No wonder truckers hate the puco. You cannot reason with them.

 

[Gamma]

John,

Your numbers don't add up when I do it myself. I get a total of 11,200 lbs for the truck & empty trailer together and I get a total of 21,200 lbs with the dozer on the trailer.

I don't understand how you could get a ticket when you didn't even have the 10,000 lb dozer on the trailer?

Where does the 33,000 lbs that you mention come from?

 

[wroughtn_harv]

John,

Your numbers don't add up when I do it myself. I get a total of 11,200 lbs for the truck & empty trailer together and I get a total of 21,200 lbs with the dozer on the trailer.

I don't understand how you could get a ticket when you didn't even have the 10,000 lb dozer on the trailer?

Where does the 33,000 lbs that you mention come from?

It's about capacity my friends, all about potential. If your truck is rated at 19,500 lbs and your trailer is rated at 20,000 lbs then you are legally capable of carrying the combination of 39,500 lbs which is over the 26,000 lb limit of a non-commercial drivers license.

Here in Texas DPS loves to see a one ton coming down the road with a dual tandem float gooseneck hooked up to it. It's money in the bank.

 

[ScottAR]

It's about capacity my friends, all about potential. If your truck is rated at 19,500 lbs and your trailer is rated at 20,000 lbs then you are legally capable of carrying the combination of 39,500 lbs which is over the 26,000 lb limit of a non-commercial drivers license.

Here in Texas DPS loves to see a one ton coming down the road with a dual tandem float gooseneck hooked up to it. It's money in the bank.

...And it wouldn't matter if you had a tennis ball secured to the deck. Depending on how bad a day the officer was having, You'd at least get a driving without sufficent license ticket. Probably an overloaded ticket as well.

 

[graybeard451]

On the door post, there should be a number after GCWV which is total rating for truck and trailer. Here is a link to Ford's chart

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2007/07RVttslctrp18Aug06.pdf

There are some models that allow up to 33,000 lbs GCWV so your truck could be legal, but if you don't have a CDL licence, you're still not legal.
I'm not sure what that means in the real world, I see people driving giant motorhomes and big rental trucks and I don't think they all have CDL's.
Good luck

 

[Builder]

On the door post, there should be a number after GCWV which is total rating for truck and trailer. Here is a link to Ford's chart

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2007/07RVttslctrp18Aug06.pdf

There are some models that allow up to 33,000 lbs GCWV so your truck could be legal, but if you don't have a CDL licence, you're still not legal.
I'm not sure what that means in the real world, I see people driving giant motorhomes and big rental trucks and I don't think they all have CDL's.
Good luck

He has the 450 model, which even with the high capacity trailer package only gets him to 30K. If he did have that package, then he would need a CDL to tow a trailer as heavy as his.

Much to my shagrin, you can drive a "giant motorhome" without a CDL. Rental trucks have the same CDL requirements as any other truck.

 

[john_bud]

Yeah, it really "draws a large negative pressure" the way they do things.

There is usually a loop hole that states licensed load or capacity rating totaling 26,001 or more pounds. Even if you only tag a 20k trailer for 10k, you can only have a 6k truck pulling it. What a racket!


I guess they fugure that if you have a 20k trailer, you're going to load it to 20k or more no matter what you tag it for. Isn't that a case of presumption of guilt without due process of law?

jb

 

[Egon]

You may want to differentiate between can and may!!

 

[Builder]

Yeah, it really "draws a large negative pressure" the way they do things.

There is usually a loop hole that states licensed load or capacity rating totaling 26,001 or more pounds. Even if you only tag a 20k trailer for 10k, you can only have a 6k truck pulling it. What a racket!


I guess they fugure that if you have a 20k trailer, you're going to load it to 20k or more no matter what you tag it for. Isn't that a case of presumption of guilt without due process of law?

jb

So true. Suppose a guy with a regular driver's licence just wants to own a heavy duty trailer because he wants it to last longer. Let's also assume it doesn't have air brakes. If he never loads it beyond the CDL rating, but the trailer IS capable of carrying a load that gets into CDL range, what law has been broken?

 

[jmfox]

I think the answer is enforcement. It is difficult to determine if you're overweight. Major highways have scales, and there are ways for State Police to check weight with portable scales but it is difficult. Under the current law an officer checks trailer and truck capacity and if it is over the CDL limit you get a ticket on the spot if you don't have the license. This is why we can all drive cars that can go 150 mph. It's easy to determine if you break the speed limit.

Also, the intent of the law is to keep untrained unlicensed drivers away from equipment that is designed for heavy loads. That is, it is not only the weight but one's capacity to handle the different driving experience that comes with a vehicle that is designed and equipped to carry heavy loads.

jmf

 

[john_bud]

I think the answer is enforcement. It is difficult to determine if you're overweight. Major highways have scales, and there are ways for State Police to check weight with portable scales but it is difficult. Under the current law an officer checks trailer and truck capacity and if it is over the CDL limit you get a ticket on the spot if you don't have the license. This is why we can all drive cars that can go 150 mph. It's easy to determine if you break the speed limit.

Also, the intent of the law is to keep untrained unlicensed drivers away from equipment that is designed for heavy loads. That is, it is not only the weight but one's capacity to handle the different driving experience that comes with a vehicle that is designed and equipped to carry heavy loads.

jmf

I hear you and that may be the reason. Doesn't mean I agree with it! You may not either. My opinion is still that there is a presumption of guilt that penalizes you for the possibility of being overweight. I also disagree with the intent of the law. I thought it was to keep people from hauling more than their equipment and training allows them to safely haul. A heavier trailer with better tires, stronger brakes, stronger frame, etc should be safer to operate than a trailer pushed to the limits.

If you will allow, I will now go slightly off topic. If you don't want to be dragged off topic, please skip ahead...

It is very difficult to prove who shot a gun and killed someone. Should all gun owners be charged with murder, just in case they may decide to kill someone in the future? After all, that is easier to enforce - you find someone with a gun and arrest them for murder. It's a ludicrous analogy for sure, but still where does the presumption of guilt to make enforement of law easier stop?

Ok - back on topic. You still can't tow the 20k trailer.

jb

 

[jmfox]

I don't see a presumption of guilt. A better example would be an individual charged with unlicensed possession of an unloaded handgun. And I don't agree that larger equipment is necessarily safer than smaller equipment. What the CDL law is saying is that you better know what you're doing if you drive vehicles that are large enough to handle heavy loads. So it is the vehicle (and trailer) not the weight that is the focus. I assume this is why large campers are distinguished, and the reason CDL requirements were increased to allow them driven by regular licenses. Self contained campers can have gross weights greater than 18,000 lbs, but it is the vehicle itself that is the load. In situations where the vehicle's design doesn't depend on the driver's knowledge for securing and distributing the load, there is less risk. Yes, this does presume a load but not its weight. Vehicles that are designed to carry heavy loads are generally open designs with more space that pose greater risk and require responsible loading. There are many compact cars and pickups that are overloaded, but because of the limited space, they pose less of a risk. In contrast, take a large flat bed and start piling a loose load high and aft and one can easily create a dangerous situation for driver and highway.

jmf

 

[Builder]

I find that it's ridiculous that a class B licence holder CAN drive a truck over 26,000lbs, but can only pull a 10K trailer.

So with a class B licence, you can drive an 80,000lb triaxle filled to the gills with 3/4 stone, but then only pull a 10K lawn equipment trailer behind it.

I'm not suggesting that he be allowed to tow a 40K trailer, but the 10K limit is too low. Anyone knows that there's little to no difference between a 10K and a 14K equipment trailer other than the tire/rim size. The lengths are generally the same. Heck, I can get a 14K trailer that's 30' long and I can get a 20K trailer that's 24' long. Both could have electric brakes and both could be towed behind a 26K hydraulic braked GMC6500. So what's the difference? IMO, the 14K longer trailer is harder to handle than the shorter 20K trailer! Anyone who drives bigger trucks knows that it's LENGTH that makes a trailer harder to handle than WEIGHT (up to a point).

Why is it that a 1-ton pickup being driven by a non-cdl holder can tow a heavier trailer (GCWR up to 26K) than a class B CDL holder can tow behind a 26K F-650? The class B CDL holder can only tow a 10K trailer!

Stupid and very impractical for the average mason or small excavating contractor who needs to tow a mid size backhoe/trackhoe behind his 26K dumptruck !!!! You wouldn't believe how many times I hear this. That's why I got my class A CDL.