Backhoe Can I run a backhoe mounted to the loader arms?

[klink]

I've been lurking on this site a lot since 2004, But as you see by the number of posts I have - well long story short - I don't know how to post pictures.

If some one would help me, I'll give it a try, I have slow dail up

 

[kennyd]

I've been lurking on this site a lot since 2004, But as you see by the number of posts I have - well long story short - I don't know how to post pictures.

If some one would help me, I'll give it a try, I have slow dail up

Check out THIS post for help.

 

[hemiguy]

I too have a 46BH (on my 2520). It does fine for the small projects that I take on but, of course, has some limitations compared to much larger units.

I can see where a well engineered front setup might come in handy for a few special projects, but I personally would be useless without my loader including most any project where I'm also using the BH. As far as swapping BH for 3pt arms and an attachment I can do it easily in 30 minutes and could probably cut it down to 15-20 with more practice.

Now in your case sweetjeep, I would ask the question of why the heck haven't you checked out the Deere 448 curved boom BH? I would think that would be a beast on your 4720. It prices out at $8300 on the Deere price/build tool. More than $5.5k but certainly less than $12k, and its a unit specifically engineered for your tractor. I may be wrong but I believe that unit uses the 4 point, rockshaft assist mounting system. If so they say it can be on/off the tractor in as little as 5 minutes. After you remove the 3-point arms, it uses the rockshaft arms to lift the unit and position the mounting pins into place. No muss, no fuss.

Just for the record there are actually three types of BH mounting systems in use on compact tractors. The 3 point system used by many aftermarket units, the subframe types used on most factory setups for small CUTs like mine, and last is the 4 point setup used on several of the larger factory BH's. The Deere midframe 3X20 and large frame 4X20 tractors are designed with frame castings strong enough to take a factory BH without any need for a subframe.

So unless you dislike your Deere dealer or they are 100's of miles away I would at least check out what they have. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jdbower]

You can also look into this cute little guy It seems like a great choice if you have issues getting to the work site.

 

[dfkrug]

Just for the record there are actually three types of BH mounting systems in use on compact tractors. The 3 point system used by many aftermarket units, the subframe types used on most factory setups for small CUTs like mine, and last is the 4 point setup used on several of the larger factory BH's. The Deere midframe 3X20 and large frame 4X20 tractors are designed with frame castings strong enough to take a factory BH without any need for a subframe.

4-point subframes are available for tractors large and small, OEM or
aftermarket. Witness the tiny factory subframe and 4-point attachment
to it on the BX24 and its BT601 hoe. Go thru the Woods catalog and you
will find their newer 4-point subframes for dozens of different tractors,
large and small. They do still offer their older subrames that use a
ladder frame permanently attached to the hoe and a ruggedized fixed
toplink, but these are for the CUTs that have yet to get 4-pt subframes
manufactured for them.

As for the current line of Deere CUTs, a subframe is still strongly
recommended over 3-point backhoe attachment. It would surprise me
if JD has abandoned their earlier admonishment to their customers
that using a 3-pt hoe on these machines will void the factory warranty.

 

[hemiguy]

So then that's actually a forth mounting system where the 4 point subframe stays with the tractor. Thanks for pointing that out. When I was looking a Kubotas, the dealer didn't have a single small CUT or subcompact with a hoe on his lot, but I was somewhat aware of the difference. Still a subframe is a subframe in either case. However, my understanding of the 3X20's and 4X20's is there are only the 4-point mounting brackets on the rear of the tractor, not really a subframe in my book. We'll have to get someone with one of those to chime in to clarify that.

In my case the ladder type subframe comes off with the hoe. The mid-frame Massey that I tried out also had a similar setup. The 2320/2520's are the only Deere CUT's that don't have a newer style curved boom hoe available. I would seriously consider trading up if they come out with one, especially if it has an easier mounting system.

Anyway I guess the point here is that there are certainly many good alternatives to trying to mount a hoe on the loader arms.

 

[radman1]

Hey folks,

I have a 4720 and have been searching for a backhoe. I've come across quite a few hoes for skidsteers and I have come to wonder.

Is there a reason I can't get a skidsteer backhoe, the skidsteer to Deere adapter plates to mount it to the loader arms, and then use it like you would (I guess) on a skidsteer?

Any reason I can't do this?? I figure the arms are rated to manipulate upwards of 4000lbs (or so), the backhoe will be partially braced against the ground anyway, it not completely braced against the ground..

Aside from running the hydro lines to the front of the tractor... what's the problem?

Thanks!

I have done it that way with a skidsteer mount BH. Small projects with some digging and didn't have SS around. It actually works OK. Just wouldn't want to do it frequently. The front axle does not take the weight because the outriggers will lift the front. The force is really on the FEL attachment plate and the front cylinders to the attachment plate. Just take it easy. Doesn't work well for trenching because have to get on a off too much. Works OK if just digging a hole or more stationary.

 

[Cidertom]

However, my understanding of the 3X20's and 4X20's is there are only the 4-point mounting brackets on the rear of the tractor, not really a subframe in my book. We'll have to get someone with one of those to chime in to clarify that.

Anyway I guess the point here is that there are certainly many good alternatives to trying to mount a hoe on the loader arms.

I can address the 4x20: The plates mount around the axle and extend forward a few inches. I can't think of a better design. At least with the 4x20, the chassis is large enough and heavy enough to take the load. The 4 pt allows no motion in use and minimizes the amount stuck behind the tractor. Back up, lift (rockshaft), install 2 pins, attach 2 hyd hoses and away you go. Removing the 3pt arms takes longer than the actual attach the BH. Now that I have a system, I can have the Hoe on in under 4 minutes, and back off in under 5.

My concern about the loader is the lateral stability. Using the 448 I have moved the tractor sideways a few times (not by intention). If you look at the arm lenght of a typical FEL vs the typical skid-steer, they are at least double. My crystal ball (cracked, I got it war surplus) says baad things happen when one puts that much force, that far away, from the pivot in a plane of motion not intended.

Have fun, be safe.

 

[dfkrug]

So then that's actually a forth mounting system where the 4 point subframe stays with the tractor. Thanks for pointing that out. When I was looking a Kubotas, the dealer didn't have a single small CUT or subcompact with a hoe on his lot, but I was somewhat aware of the difference. Still a subframe is a subframe in either case. However, my understanding of the 3X20's and 4X20's is there are only the 4-point mounting brackets on the rear of the tractor, not really a subframe in my book. We'll have to get someone with one of those to chime in to clarify that.

In my case the ladder type subframe comes off with the hoe. The mid-frame Massey that I tried out also had a similar setup. The 2320/2520's are the only Deere CUT's that don't have a newer style curved boom hoe available. I would seriously consider trading up if they come out with one, especially if it has an easier mounting system.

I have posted in the past about the types of hoe subframes out there
and what can be custom-built. Some are clearly better than others.
Factory-built is not always the best. Often factory-built after-mkt
subframes make it very difficult to go back to using your 3-pt for
other implements. Quick(er) attachment subframes that use pins instead
of bolts are problematic in that they wiggle a bit. It is interesting to see
that Woods has trended toward bolts (instead of pins as used on their
earlier subframes) to combat that issue.

Anyway, I have posted about 3 major ways to mount a hoe: 3PH, using
special toplink and anti-lift brace, and 2 major types of subframe. I call
the subframes Ladder-Style w/ toplink, and Four-point. A third type of
subframe would be like described by CIDERTOM: a shorter bracket that
attaches around the rear axle casting and probably ties into the rear of
the loader subframe. I have not owned or seen this last type and I am
not familiar with the newest JD subframes. I have owned and made all of
the other types.

The 4-pt subframes all separate around the rear axle casting, leaving
part on the tractor and part on the hoe. This is the approach used
by commercial hoes and the model I use when making the sturdiest
possible subframes.

I have recently acquired a B21 TLB commercial hoe. It uses a so-called
"mainframe", mounted securely to the engine and rear axle casting. It
uses a QA mechanism that is an engineering marvel, BUT it also has some
wear due to wiggling at these points.

 

[CoffeeFarmGuy]

I just registered so I could say thanks to those that wrote this thread.

I have a JD 2155 with a heavy duty loader. I got a deal on a little BH and was thinking about mounting it on the loader arms,... and despite good warning to the contrary I am still thinking it will work OK. The bucket is only 12" wide, and the boom is no more then 5' long.

I have to dig a ~400' electrical trench - part of which will go up a hill that I can't access otherwise. Even with the little BH on the loader arms I will be doing a bit of hand digging. I believe that with the stabilizers down I will be more than fine.

Now I need to decide if I use the tractor's hydraulic system, or buy longer hoses for the BH's PTO system. Any thoughts?

Mahalo in advance!
Bruce in Hawaii