Can lights and Ceiling Fans in a New pole barn?

[goodoleboy]

Can you guys give any advice on what type of lighting would be good for a new workshop..

The building is 30x50x10 I was thinking of adding can lights becuase they are farily cheap $7 each and provide very attractive lighting vs. a flourescent style light which really give me headache when I am under one for a while.

The ceiling height is 10 feet tall..I was thinking of mounting the lights in 4 rows with 10 lights in each row..Total of 40 can lights.Do you think this will provide suffiecent lighting?

Also do you think multiple celing fans 5-6 would be better than one large fan? I dont have any heat or a/c in the building so this will be my only source of keeping cool in the summer.

 

[MicroPilot]

Hmmm...40 lights at 60 watts each is 2400 watts (40*60=2400). 2400 watts on a 120V circuit will be pulling 20 amps (2400/120=20). I'd think you'll need to put in at least 2 circuits just for the lights.

What wattage are the cans rated at?

 

[goodoleboy]

Hmmm...40 lights at 60 watts each is 2400 watts (40*60=2400). 2400 watts on a 120V circuit will be pulling 20 amps (2400/120=20). I'd think you'll need to put in at least 2 circuits just for the lights.

What wattage are the cans rated at?

Hi, unsure of the wattage..I was thinking whatever will handle a standard 100watt lightbulb..

As in two circuts, does that mean two "breakers" in the fuse box? I am having my fahter in law help me do the wiring portion so I dont know much about elctricty.

 

[MicroPilot]

...I was thinking whatever will handle a standard 100watt lightbulb...

Using 100 watt bulbs will mean that the 40 lights will be drawing 33.3 amps. This will almost certainly require two 20 amp circuits.

As in two circuts, does that mean two "breakers" in the fuse box? I am having my fahter in law help me do the wiring portion so I dont know much about elctricty.

Yes, circuit can be thought of as a breaker in the fuse box.

Is your father in law an electrician? You'll need to be sure you are following local electrical code for safety sake, and also to pass any inspections that may be required. Code may limit the number of lights you can install.

 

[goodoleboy]

Using 100 watt bulbs will mean that the 40 lights will be drawing 33.3 amps. This will almost certainly require two 20 amp circuits.



Yes, circuit can be thought of as a breaker in the fuse box.

Is your father in law an electrician? You'll need to be sure you are following local electrical code for safety sake, and also to pass any inspections that may be required. Code may limit the number of lights you can install.

Yes he was a electrician in another state years ago..He is not in my state. Ill have to call the building inspector and give him a run down on my plans and see if its ok for code..I may just do two rows along the walls if the number is a problem.

 

[anojones]

There are folks who know a lot more about this stuff than me, but I put some can lights in part of our "barn" recently. The main issue with can lights is they don't put out as much light due to being recessed- that may not be a big deal if you have task lighting where you need it. I ended up putting cans in the home gym area and just used keyless incandesencts in the shop portion which put our more light (not attractive, but cheap and functional). Flourecents use less juice and put out a fair bit of light and can be purchased in different color temperatures, some of which may not bother you as much.

 

[DocHeb]

I dont have any heat or a/c in the building so this will be my only source of keeping cool in the summer.

If you need to keep cool in the summer, the use of incandescent bulbs will be the rough equivalent of a 4000 watt heater running whenever you have the light on.

 

[dmccarty]

Our house is 2,425ish square feet. We have 80+ can lights in the house and on the porches. We also put in task lighting under the cabinets in the kitchen and the utility room. Our ceiling are 10 feet tall.

There are lighting "rules" for how much light(lumes) you need based on the ceiling height. Google should find you the rules pretty quick. I looked up the rules and then went beyond. I don't want a dark house. And I'm glad I did it since my eyes are getting worse and what use to be bright ain't as bright as it used to be.

In our Kitchen which is about 16x16 without the cabinets and appliances we have off the top of my head 9 can lights, four task lights, and the light from the ceiling fan. Usually the task lights and 8 can lights are on. The task lights have been burning for 24 hours a day for 3 years. Still have not replaced the tubes.

Our bedrooms and study are 16x16 or 12x12 and they have four canned lights plus the ceiling fan light. We usually don't use the ceiling fan lights they just came with the fan. There is no problem with lack of light with this setup.

We get more than enough light from these cans. They are running either R30 or R40 CFI bulbs. But you can use the cheaper CFI bulbs. I THINK the cans were rated at 65ish watts maybe they went to 100 but you need to check what yours is rated. I would stick with the CFI bulbs the last longer, don't put out that much heat, and use less power. The bulbs we are using are 13-15 watts. The only incandescent bulbs we have is for the vanity mirror in the bathroom. When the wifey turns the light it heats up the room quick.

Regarding ceiling fans. I would get more rather than one or two big ones. More fans should be quieter and would move the air where you are working. You might be able to work with less fans running. I would also get the fans with a light. A problem with cans is that ceiling fans will be LOWER than the lights. When the fan is turned on you can get flicker/shadows from the fan. If the fan has a light it can be turned on to lesson/negate the flicker. This has not bothered us I think because we have so many lights.

Also some cans are rated to have contact with insulation while others are not. If you have insulation that will contact the light can make sure you get the correct can. Light cans also leak air. Some cans are better at this than others. This may not matter in your garage. Just putting the info out there.

I thought I was going overboard with the cans. But I figured I could always use bulbs with less wattage if there was TOO much light. If there was not enough light it was going to be very expensive, dirty and time consuming to fix. We have not regretted putting in 80+ cans.

Later,
Dan

 

[tallyho8]

Window fans would provide much cooler air than ceiling fans. Ceiling fans will just blow down the hot air that rises to the ceiling and they are especially bad if you have an uninsulated metal roof.

Can lights put out a lot of heat and the light is very condensed in small areas leaving other areas with insufficient light. I recommend flourescents that you can get in different color temps that will be the same as incadescent lights. You may also want to use the CFI bulbs. They will be much more energy efficient and save on wiring costs also.

 

[4720 OWNER]

Work shop or barn?? Reason is, cans tend to get a bit warm. Barns generate a lot of dust. Dust and heat seem to be too good of friends once in a while and tend to fire up. I could feel your pain about flourescents, i have the same problem as well, but CFL's seem to be getting better and better, there are even cold start ones that will work down to -20, or so they say. Will say for sure later, i am liting the goat pens with them. Another reason is because an incandescents are hot and if broken could lite a fire in the hay. Heard of 1 fellow who swears by CFL's in trouble lites, saves on arm burns when working in close proximity and do not pop as easy if get wet.

 

[jwstewar]

Heard of 1 fellow who swears by CFL's in trouble lites, saves on arm burns when working in close proximity and do not pop as easy if get wet.

After blowing four bulbs in a day when I was working on our Honda a year or ago, I switched my trouble light over to CFL. Haven't blown a bulb since. Before everytime I bumped it, the bulb would blow and I would burn my arm on the hot metal cage. Not anymore. The CFL has already paid for itself because of not having to keep buying bulbs.

 

[schmism]

compact florescent is the way to go.

espeically if you go commercial type bulb. how about a 40W Quad Tube CFL that provides 2400 Lumens of light, equivalent to a 200W incandescent bulb

 

[EddieWalker]

I think that recessed lights in a shop or barn would be a huge mistake. They just don't give off very much light. In the homes that have them, there is usually another source of light if you need to realy see what you are doing.

In the shop, florecent lights are the best choice dollar wise. I have 8 footers, but if you want lots of lights all over the place, you can go with 4 footers.

There are other options, but it's gonna be real hard to find something better, and when you do, it's gonna be allot more money.

Eddie

 

[QRTRHRS]

I did not used to like flourecents either but their are bulbs out now that are much better to live with. After speaking with a lighting consultant, I used them in the 40x120 horse barn I had put up at my last property. The barn was basically three long bays, the outer ones being twelve foot deep stalls and the center a sixteen foot aisle.

Rather than trusses, the barn was built with rafters and collar ties so there were headers running the length of the barn on both sides of the center aisle. There were ten bays (12x10 = 120 feet). I hung five eight foot double bulb fixtures from the header on one side staggered over every other bay. For the other side, I used four eight footers then a four footer at the end just to make sure that that corner had adequate lighting.

I used Simkar OV850'swhich are sealed for use in industrial or wet environments. Great for taking the hose to blast off the dirt. The bulbs and ballasts were low temp rated. They never blinked but would be a bit dim when the temp was cold. During the five PA winters we had that barn, it never got down to 20 below so I cannot say they would start at that temp.

It was like daylight in that barn with all of those lights lit up!

Tek Supply good source for reasonably priced ceiling fans.

 

[Mike058]

There are several brands of the CFL's available. I went out and bought one of each that were common around here. I tried them all out and came up with a favorite. They differ in how fast they come up to full power and color of the light. Some actually have a rather warm tone that is closer to incandescent than traditional fluorescent.

 

[dmccarty]

In our house we only have the can lights and the lights on the ceiling fans. We have zero, zip, no lamps in the house. Can't stand the things. Even before kids the lamp shades would always fall to pieces. Have no idea why but they would. We have no problem with the amount of light from the cans.

My eyes are getting older and my night/dark vision is getting worse. Used to be pretty danged good but not anymore. Our ceiling fans have remotes. From the remote you can turn on the light as well as the fan. Very nice. The light from the ceiling fan is enough for me to read by in bed. Its not nearly as bright as the four cans in the room but its enough for me to read by without too much problem.

By accident the electrician took a bunch of CFI bulbs and put them into the flood lights. I figured what the heck lets see how they work. These bulbs are three years old at this point and they are the older technology. They don't come on as fast as the newer bulbs and they are slower when its cold outside but they do light up. They really should be proper flood lights with higher wattage but they do work. We seldom get down into the teen though.

Whether it is CHEAPER to put in canned lights vs large tube lights is a different question. But we have no problem at all with the light produced with R30/40 bulbs in the cans.

Later,
Dan

 

[ray66v]

The cheep can lights are not rated for insulation contact. This means each one is a heat loss. Each is a small hole in the ceiling directing your heat out. And when not on, allowing small amounts of cold air in.

They can also allow some moisture to escape into you attic, with the heat, lowering your R values.

If you insulate over them anyway, the thermal cut off could, at best turn them off all the time, and at worst, not work, and start a fire.

Weather or not CFL bulbs would allow them to be insulated without problems, is a guess you would have to make.

 

[goodoleboy]

Thanks for the advice everyone..The concensus looks like flourecent is the way to go..I did not really consider the Heating factor the convential bulbs would make..

If I did go with the Can lights I would put each row on a seperate switch only to illuminate the area I am working in..
Home Repo had the remodel type, Insulation contact, with airtight cans on clerance from $68 to $30 for 6 lights (Halo brand).

I may just go with 2 rows of 10 for a total of 20 lights for the workbench areas..Then a high quality florescent for the middle row of the building..



Here is a sample of the way I am thinking of doing it.


Can is a can light
Flor is a florecent light


Rear Garage Door
-------------
Can Flor Can
Can --- Can
Can Flor Can
Can --- Can
Can Flor Can
Can --- Can
Can Flor Can
Can --- Can
Can --- Can
Can Flor Can
-------------
Front Garage Door

 

[EddieWalker]

I think you have a thing for can lighting. While they are fine for certain aplications, this isn't one of them. Just say no to can lighting in your shop.

Eddie

 

[QRTRHRS]

One advantage long flourecents have is that it is very easy to hang them temporarily until you have the right amount of lighting then make them permanent.