Can one burn vedgey oil in a yanmar?

[SkyPup]

What do you mean the Diesel Engine Manufacturers don't know about the poor quality and danger of using biodiesel in their engines???? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Darren said, "The other thing that is apparent is that only FIE manufacturers are working on the issue. The engine manufactuerers don't seem to have taken a position. I guess if the injection system will handle it, the engine itself will run fine."


That is not even a good guess, they've known about it for years! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.enginemanufacturers.org/admin/library/upload/297.pdf

Engine Manufacturers Association 2005 MEMBERSHIP ROSTER

Briggs & Stratton Corporation
Caterpillar Inc.
CNH Global N.V.
Cummins Inc.
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Deere & Company
Detroit Diesel Corporation
Deutz Corporation
Engine Manufacturers Association (EMA)
Ford Motor Company
General Motors Corporation
Hino Motors, Ltd.
International Truck & Engine Corporation
Isuzu Manufacturing Services of America, Inc.
Kohler Company
Komatsu Ltd.
Kubota Engine America Corporation
Mitsubishi Engine North America, Inc.
Mitsubishi Fuso Truck of America, Inc.
Onan - Cummins Power Generation
PACCAR Inc.
Scania CV AB
Tecumseh Power Company
Volkswagen of America, Inc.
Volvo Powertrain Corporation
Waukesha Engine, Dresser, Inc.
Yamaha Motor Corporation
Yanmar America Corporation


LOL /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif


It also clearly states that biodiesel provides a significant LOSS of power compared directly to petroleum diesel fuel, which is the direct opposite of your previous statements.

 

[SkyPup]

BIODIESEL CONCLUSIONS @ 50HRS. RUNTIME:

· Pumps completely worn after 50 hours, full load no longer possible /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

· Pump barrel worn abrasively /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

· Pressure control valve seat inside barrel corroded /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

· Constant pressure valve seat corroded /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

· Inside injectors needle seats and nozzle seats are destroyed /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

· Bio-fuel is too aggressive for standard F.I.E. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


Read all about it and see the awful destructive photos here:

http://www.novem.nl/default.asp?documentId=138504

 

[California]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Pumps completely worn after 50 hours, full load no longer possible )</font>

No question that this is bleeding edge research, and that test led to immediate failure.

Their conclusion was that the commercial provider of WVO had used sulphuric acid to dissolve solids and the fuel was so acidic that it destroyed the entire fuel delivery system in a week.

Also the fuel left scratches on the piston rings attributed to particle contamination in the fuel.

Related observations were that biodiesel absorbs water leading to fuel system corrosion, and its biodegradability breaks it down into sludge much faster than diesel.

This doesn't condemn the entire concept of biodiesel, rather it shows some hazards to plan around when designing a real-world application.

 

[SkyPup]

At best, a 2%-5% biodiesel lubricity additive to petrodiesel fuel is allowable in most instances, unless the quaity control during the production, storage, and distribution of the biodiesel component is subpar allowing the ensuing oxidation and degradation of the plant derived organic molecules.

 

[Darren]

Your links doesn't address straight unused vegetable oil. The papers I cited did not involve biodiesel. There's a difference between fresh vegetable oil and biodiesel. You're discussing the equivalent of oranges (biodiesel) while I've been talking about apples (vegetable oil that has not been through the transesterification process). I've never run biodiesel.

One of the useable byproducts created in the biodiesel process is glycerin. Manufacturers usually choose to skin a cat as many times as possible to get as many saleable products out of the feedstock. Biodiesel may be no different.

The link to the engine manufacturer's position paper stated, "Biodiesel fuels are produced by a process called transesterification ..." which indicates a process that by itself can potentially create problems. If you read the material about making biodiesel, you'll see the cautions.

As for biodiesel having less BTUs than #2 diesel, that's not a surprise. My comments on the BTU content of vegetable oil was for oil that had not gone through the transesterification process.

The question is, why is transesterifiaction required?

 

[wd45]

You know that John Deere will be shipping their diesels with 2% biodiesel from the factory. As to why the vedgie oil needs to be modified - - good question, don't think I have ever heard a reason given. Anyone know?

Mike

 

[Archdean]

Hey! You guys have been really busy with this thread since my PSA, Burned a lot of Dino diesel today and never once was tempted to get any French fries!!

Point, The day has long since passed where the Europeans are able to define anything!!

Point, water/moisture does not / is not removed in veggie oil by filtration!!

Point, This has brought the best of the best posts to a thread I've seen in a long time!!

My hat's off to all of you for a very informative and well presented thread!!!

Dean

 

[SkyPup]

LOL, SVO (straight vegetable oil) is a no go in diesels since it is simply triglycerides with three fatty acids instead of fatty acid methy esters stripped off their glycerol backbone.

You've got a lot of biochemistry and compression ignition engine fundamentals to learn! Your statements that vegetable oils contain more BTU's than petrodiesel and that you simply pour your straight vegetable oil into your fuel tank to burn it is grossly distorted. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

BTW, why don't you simply post the calorific content in BTUs, the vapor pressure, the boiling point, and the specific gravity of the your straight untreated vegetable oil that you are pouring into your unmodified diesel enginel and then I'll simply explain to you why that does not work. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Darren]

"Your statements that vegetable oils contain more BTU's than petrodiesel and that you simply pour your straight vegetable oil into your fuel tank to burn it is grossly distorted."

My statement on the BTU content is based on reading the thesis cited. Twenty five years later, I was able to pull both the magazine and the book referenced off a shelf. The thesis got lost in a move. You have all the info you need to confirm my statements. In addition to the thesis there were four other articles referenced in the bibliography of the book on engine design.

My statement on using vegetable oil to run a diesel is based on having done just that. The engine still runs but the twenty year old vehicle body is junk. If you do an internet search there's a least one diesel forum where folks have been buying cheap vegetable oil from Sam's Club and running up to a 50% blend in the Navistar diesel installed in Fords.

 

[SkyPup]

Darren, I was trained as a lipid biochemist over 30 years ago and I have yet to ever meet a lipid chemist that claims to know of any lipid that contains more kcal/mole than petrochemical derived #2 diesel fuel.

Sorry, that is insufficent evidence for the claims you have made, but glad to hear you are still enjoying that diesel even if it doesn't run on straight veggie oil that has less BTU's than #2 petro diesel fuel. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif