Can you deduct tongue weight if you are over axle capacity?

[Industrial Toys]

Just got off the phone with U-Haul. For a very brief moment, this seemed like a viable option. Unfortunately, the call center rep seemed to just be reading off their web page with no personal knowledge of axles, weights or much else relating to trailers.

None of their trailers appear to have any significant hauling capacity in terms of weight. The one way thing would have been nice, but is only applicable to certain units.

Anyway, I just mailed my deposit for the machine, so I gotta figure this out. I actually got a bit light headed when the bank quoted me the exchange rate for the money order!

I noticed that Map Quest gives travel time for driving, cycling and walking but not for tractors. Maybe an option. A guy I know bought a Grade-all in the States and drove it back across the border. It always amazes me, how fast such trips can actually go. Slow but steady!

 

[GLyford]

Yep. No question and no argument from me that a bumper pull does take weight off the front. But it's crazy the number of times I hear people say things like getting the front end too light, wheels off the ground, etc. People just don't understand weights and levers that make such crazy notions.

A standard wheelbase is usually somewhere around 135". Rear axle to ball, usually about 45". (3:1 ratio).

So 1300# on the ball is gonna take about 430# off a front end that's probably sitting at 4300. A mere 10%

Or in on the words, even if a light gasser with only 3500 pounds over the front, it would take OVER 10,000# on the ball to make the front end airborne.

So anytime I hear people make these notions, it just makes me roll my eyes.

I have driven enough trucks loaded to the point where the front end gets light to know that I really don't enjoy the experience, and do my best to avoid those situations by paying more attention to my loading. Even if the front end was nowhere near coming off the ground (sorry if my hyperbole offended you) the changes in steering feedback, camber, ability of the tires to affect the steered direction of the vehicle or slow it were quite pronounced.

You want to claim about how bogus it is, why don't you go get a pallet of patio blocks or shingles loaded at the home center onto your tailgate, drive it around the parking lot and get back to me...

 

[ovrszd]

Yep. No question and no argument from me that a bumper pull does take weight off the front. But it's crazy the number of times I hear people say things like getting the front end too light, wheels off the ground, etc. People just don't understand weights and levers that make such crazy notions.

A standard wheelbase is usually somewhere around 135". Rear axle to ball, usually about 45". (3:1 ratio).

So 1300# on the ball is gonna take about 430# off a front end that's probably sitting at 4300. A mere 10%

Or in on the words, even if a light gasser with only 3500 pounds over the front, it would take OVER 10,000# on the ball to make the front end airborne.

So anytime I hear people make these notions, it just makes me roll my eyes.

I agree. I certainly didn't read it as lifting the front tires off the ground. Although that would be cool to see. Come to think of it, I doubt most rear hitches would stand the weight necessary to lift the front tires off the ground!!!

Anytime you shift the weight percentage on the axles of the pulling vehicle, front to back, it will change how said vehicle drives. The more change, the more noticeable.

 

[Industrial Toys]

A few years ago, I had a friend with his half ton and brand new double axle hauler offer to take my JD 6200 (less 640 Loader, loaded rear tires) to a shop for some work. Back roads, maybe 15 miles. We could not get the front tractor wheels past the fenders and didn't want to scratch the new trailer so the tractor was just kind of hanging off the back of the trailer with the trailer trying to lift the arse end of the truck up.

THAT, was a most interesting trip, the sensations even as a passenger, that I will never forget!

 

[Industrial Toys]

I thought I might have a picture. Well, it seems we could not get the BACK wheels past the fenders and put that roller full of gravel in the front for ballast. Funny the picture doesn't look like anything is really wrong, and yet the ride was quite unsettling.

 

[ovrszd]

I thought I might have a picture. Well, it seems we could not get the BACK wheels past the fenders and put that roller full of gravel in the front for gravel. Funny the picture doesn't look like anything is really wrong, and yet the ride was quite unsettling.

Unsettling is putting it mildly!!!! The real danger begins when you try to slow down!!!!

 

[Industrial Toys]

I don't remember why the tractor needed work. In hind sight, we should have left the loader on.

 

[LD1]

I have driven enough trucks loaded to the point where the front end gets light to know that I really don't enjoy the experience, and do my best to avoid those situations by paying more attention to my loading. Even if the front end was nowhere near coming off the ground (sorry if my hyperbole offended you) the changes in steering feedback, camber, ability of the tires to affect the steered direction of the vehicle or slow it were quite pronounced.

You want to claim about how bogus it is, why don't you go get a pallet of patio blocks or shingles loaded at the home center onto your tailgate, drive it around the parking lot and get back to me...

I didnt get offended. Just didnt take the tone of your post when ou said "lift the front wheels in the air" as sarcasm. I hear it mentioned alot, even heard people say it in person that they "loaded or hauled something so heavy the front tires were barley on the ground". Just makes me roll my eyes as its a crazy notion.

And I doubt a pallet of blocks would do much on my 160" wheelbase 3500 + Quad cab + Long bed + Diesel + Solid front axle + plow mount and pump/lights dodge. And I have had a full pallet of retaining wall blocks loaded on the very back. About half on the bumper and half in the bed. The forklift driver set them down to back up and re-lift to shove them the rest of the way in. The rear squatted ~3-4" with that load, but no noticable movement up front. And even when I plow snow, I have two weight barrel (55 gallon) tucked back against the tailgate and they are filled with 1000# of concrete each. Even With no plow on, you'd never even know they were back there except for the smoother ride.

Come to think of it, I doubt most rear hitches would stand the weight necessary to lift the front tires off the ground!!!

I think you are correct on that. But sure, there could be some scenarios where front end would be noticeably light. Like if one had a chevy 1500 reg cab short bed, with a light 5.3 and NO 4wd stuff up front. Maybe a 4000# truck total with ~2500# over the front axle. With just shy of a 10' wheelbase It becomes alot closer to 2:1 ratio. And a ~5000# tongue load would lift the front. In that case, even a 1000# tongue weight would be quite noticeable.

In the OP's case though, 1300# on his 2500 diesel....would NOT be a problem as long as the hitch, insert, trailer, coupler, etc were all rated to handle it.

OP: have you considered one of them online shipping outfits where people bid on your load?

 

[Sysop]

Not that it makes a lot of difference in this case, but one thing you can deduct if trying to sneak a couple hundred extra pounds is the weight of the tires, wheels, and axle(s) themselves. That weight is directly on the ground and not 'supported' by the axle. The springs and deck are all that counts as "load weight" on the axles. This is actually some of the "built in safety margin" spoken of earlier in the thread. I personally wouldn't overload beyond the weight of the axles, wheels, and tires. On your trailer I don't think that would be more than probably 150lbs.

 

[Industrial Toys]

That is a good point. Being unsprung weight. It still looks like I will be going with a tandem trailer and get my truck saftied later this week.

I put an ad on uship. Roughly 2600 and 2400 dollars were the bids. Then comes the brokerage charges. Thanks, but no thanks.