Can you weld engines together?

   / Can you weld engines together? #11  
If you want to phase the engines in a particular way, then don't use belts - they won't stay in any particular phasing for more than a few seconds due to belt slippage. Chain and sprockets would keep their alignment.

As far a syncing the carbs, it might not be that bad to get them close. I used to sync 4 motorcycle carbs by eye by setting the gap between the throttle plate and inside of the carb bore to all look the same. Checked later with a vacuum gauge, they were pretty close.

If the throttles are almost completely closed off, with just a few thousandths gap, it isn't too hard to get them almost exactly the same. Then you just have to make sure the throttle cable starts opening all the throttles at exactly the same time.

Even if one engine is running with less throttle than the others, it'll kick in it's share when the load gets high enough ...

Sounds like a fun project.

I've thought of "gluing" 8 weedeater motors together in a V configuration somehow and putting them on a go-kart ....
 
   / Can you weld engines together? #12  
If you can line them up you could weld them. Since you are talking about welding the complete engines they will have their normal balance. You might pick up some different vibrations because of the multiple power strokes.

The only thing is would the crankshaft be able to handle the additional torque? Just a gut feeling now, but I would hesitate to make a v8. I think that I would limit it to just two engines. But if they are free, let us know where the failure took place.
 
   / Can you weld engines together?
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Sounds like no-one has done it before, its gotta be worth a try, hey it might all explode.....thatll be cool too /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
there are about 50 of them , i hope he aint scrapped them yet, i said i wanted them. Mix and match at atleast some may go. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Can you weld engines together? #14  
I think youd be better off using them as individual power plants. Like leave the one ont he mower for drive/blades. then make a deck with a couple mowers on it.. each powering a blade.. or the belt/chain idea to power a ganged blade.. etc.

Soundguy
 
   / Can you weld engines together? #15  
Welding the crankshafts isn't going to work for some reasons not menioned here. Basically, the top side of the bottom motor is covered by a combination flywheel and fan, and will not lend easily to welding anything together. This part is typically aluminum, or aluminum and plastic. You would have to weld from the bottom of the top engine's crankshaft to the very top surface on the bottom engine's crankshaft. This is a small fragile weld bead for what you want to do. Take into account the alignment issues as mentioned before, the weld won't last long.

To get this to work you could make an adapter which puts a coupler between the top and bottom engines. The adapter would be a plate the bolts to the top of the bottom engine's flywheel, using the nut which retains the flywheel to the crankshaft. You would have to key this adapter to the crankshaft somehow. Alternatively, some Kohler engines have drive systems incorporated into thier flywheels which use either three or four bolts. If you have one of these engines you could just bolt the adapter right to those threaded holes. The adapter would mount a couple, which is welded to a standard keyed sleeve going to the top engine's crankshaft. This would allow misalignment of the two crankshafts without shafing the whole assembly to pieces.

The timing issue really isn't an issue so long as you orient the adapter between the two engines, so that the little engine fires while the bigger engine is just beginning it's exhaust stroke (exhaust valve open). Doing this you won't have to worry about overspeeding the small engine, and you won't have to worry about the small engine's compression stroke bogging down the big engine's intake stroke. Speeding up or slowing down the intake stroke of either engine is going to hurt cylinder filling and reduce power of either engine. This is not the goal, however, it's unavoidable given that the two engines are so different in power levels. Orienting the big engine's power stroke to the little engine's compression stroke is as follows:

C) BIG SMALL
1) pow com
2) exh pow
3) int exh
4) com int

Cycle 1, has the big engine firing when the small engine is under it's compression stroke. I would orient the engines so that the big engine fires just after the small engine's intake valve closes. This will be some angle not divisible by a 90 deg increment.

Cycle 2, the big engine goes into exhaust and the small engine goes through it's power cycle. I don't see this process as hurting the big engine, since the big engine has alot more inertia and drag than the small engine. This is a better compromise than the reverse, where the little engine is on it's exhaust cycle and the big engine fires. You will overspeed the small engine for sure in this scenario.

Cycle 3, both engines freehweel, no difference from the factory setups.

Cycle 4, big engine goes into it's compression stroke and the small engine goes into it's intake stroke. Cylinder filling on the small engine will be effected less by the big engine's compression stroke than it would be if the big engine were on it's exhaust stroke. The exhaust stroke of the big engine would offer less resistance to rotation causing the small engine's piston would move faster, not necessarily making more power in the small engine.

Now, if the engines were ganged to fire 180 degrees apart, then the small engine's intake stroke would occur on the big engine's exhaust stroke. this again would cause much higher piston speeds than normal in the small engine during the intake stroke, and less cylinder filling.

Ideally, if both engines are the same power level, then run the firing events at 180 degrees from each other.

I see no reason to try and balance the carbs, since the following two things are true (as far as I can tell).
1) The two engines are completely different power levels.
2) Balancing the carbs would bring this whole project to 98% half-assedness, rather than the full 100% half-assedness, using unbalanced carbs. I don't see the time invested in balancing the carbs as worthwhile given the meager 2% reduction in half-assedness. Granted, this is also a good argument for just welding the cranks together instead of building an adapter/coupler mechanism. This is how I see it, please take no offense.
 
   / Can you weld engines together? #16  
As I see it you could set up a clutch like the old Cub Cadets had that was disk on the drive shaft. With this setup the lower engine could be started first, then when cluth was engaged the second one would start.
What was you planning to power with this?
 
   / Can you weld engines together? #17  
Mith the only way I can see them to work is to mount them on one plate and mount a v belt drive to them. that would alow for some slippage and timing differencecs. Trying to weld them and time them with a solid moun would nearly be impossible. Most pull trucks and tractors with the multiple engines use fluid couplings to mount them togther. A fluid coupling is basically a closed system torque converter that allows for slippage and other things. The secrete to getting poower from a small engine like that is using proper gearing. Your machine might be a lot slower but would be easier and more simple than to try to use 3 weleded to gether.
 
   / Can you weld engines together? #18  
Another option, run 2 motors for the wheels. Run two to power each individual rear wheel. Maybe try using a tank type steering system, cut power to one side to turn that direction. Then you could run a seperate motor(s) for the attachments.
 
   / Can you weld engines together? #19  
Ever try to pull start a V4 Johnson? NOT /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
   / Can you weld engines together?
  • Thread Starter
#20  
Thanks for your thoughts all
fyi, the pic of the tractor with an engone morphed on top was to demonstrate, i dont plan to put a 3.5HP on a 10HP motor, just planning to weld 3.5's together. the engine would be of the same power and probably of the same make.
Soundguy, i think that may be a plan. how about a 9' 6 engined tow behind mower /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif nice

i rekoned if i welded the flywheel bolt to the bottom of the crankshft of the engine above and then turn it on then it wouldnt be too hard to make it pretty colse ot the middle.

cleatus, have no plans of what to do really, just trying to think of a use for free engines /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

how about using centrifugal clutches between them all, this would allow for slippage and mean that you could run them individually. i also have a clutch for a small motorbike that i could use
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ever try to pull start a V4 Johnson? )</font>
i caoint even pullstart my 12HP single cylinder /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
thanks all
 

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