Canadians not welcome at JD - USA

[slowzuki]

CNH are priced pretty darned close to the exchange. I've never seen a reason to go to the US for one. Agco is very close too. JD is expensive but maybe they are in the US too. Never priced one down there. A JD5603 (cab loader and 4wd) is about 48,000$ cdn here which is about 50,000 $ today depending what the exchange is.
Ken

I understand where the guys are coming from and as I said earlier, if the item is just something you have to have then it is up to the consumer to pay for it. How are CNH or Agco products priced up in Canada compared to US? I have never been one to buy something just because of the paint so I buy from the best dealer. There is a reason I don't have much JD equipment on my farm. Deere has been priced considerably higher locally then CNH for the same type of equipment. And as far as vineyard tractors (which is my next purchase) go I would rather have a CNH tractor then the John Deere offering. But the John Deere salesman seems interested in my business so I will talk to him and see what type of price he is going to quote me. Generally they have been $5k higher then the equivelant CNH vineyard tractor

 

[Robert_in_NY]

CNH are priced pretty darned close to the exchange. I've never seen a reason to go to the US for one. Agco is very close too. JD is expensive but maybe they are in the US too. Never priced one down there. A JD5603 (cab loader and 4wd) is about 48,000$ cdn here which is about 50,000 $ today depending what the exchange is.
Ken

Deere has some dealers that price their tractors competitively but I don't find them around here. Deere is usually higher then the other brands for same type equipment which is why I don't have very much green and yellow.

 

[canoetrpr]

From what I have seen both Deere and Kubota are pricing pretty much in line with USA prices these days here anyway.

By 'in line' I don't mean identical pricing but once you factor in say $1000 or so to ship a tractor, the difference isn't enough to warrant not working with a local dealer.

 

[SuperDutyDave]

a couple comments

first this is not a dealer created issue it is a manufacturer issue...they can remedy it by adjusting prices in Canada to what they should be for the value of the CDN dollar...but they are greedy and elect not too.

discrimintory pricing based upon national orgin is reprehensible...no different than if they had different pricing for race,creed etc. If a Canadian came into an american resturant and/or hotel etc. and once regonized as a Canadian he was given a higher price menu or a higher room rate many an attorney general would call foul and sue the resturant/hotel etc. to stop such a discrimintory practice...why should it be different in buying a tractor???

Dealer agreements state you are only authorized (the dealer) to sell tractors within the U.S. If the Canadian is in your store and your store is in the U.S. then you are selling in the U.S. what he/she elects to do with the tractor export it, burn it, take it to the moon is really none of your business.

With NAFTA in place it is a continental economy...manufacturers better get used to it...protectionism never works.

This whole issue is being driven by manufacturer's greed and them holding on to their power. The dealers are caught in the middle

Dave

 

[Robert_in_NY]

a couple comments

first this is not a dealer created issue it is a manufacturer issue...they can remedy it by adjusting prices in Canada to what they should be for the value of the CDN dollar...but they are greedy and elect not too.

discrimintory pricing based upon national orgin is reprehensible...no different than if they had different pricing for race,creed etc. If a Canadian came into an american resturant and/or hotel etc. and once regonized as a Canadian he was given a higher price menu or a higher room rate many an attorney general would call foul and sue the resturant/hotel etc. to stop such a discrimintory practice...why should it be different in buying a tractor???

Dealer agreements state you are only authorized (the dealer) to sell tractors within the U.S. If the Canadian is in your store and your store is in the U.S. then you are selling in the U.S. what he/she elects to do with the tractor export it, burn it, take it to the moon is really none of your business.

With NAFTA in place it is a continental economy...manufacturers better get used to it...protectionism never works.

This whole issue is being driven by manufacturer's greed and them holding on to their power. The dealers are caught in the middle

Dave

So do you sue your local McDonalds if you get sick from eating a bad hamburger at a McDonalds 100 miles away? Or sue your local hotel because you stubbed your toe in Florida as you left your room at the Holiday Inn? But if your tractor breaks down and you bought it from a dealer 500 miles away where would you take it to be warrantied?

Maybe Deere could get rid of this 7% fee and instead say only the selling dealer can do any warranty claims on this tractor unless you can prove you moved after buying. Would people feel better about it? I don't think so.

Deere is trying to discourage cross border shopping not to discriminate but to keep the tractors in the dealers sales area. All the OEM's are having to address these issues as the internet grows and no matter what they do someone is going to be upset.

There were a couple NH dealers in North Carolina selling tractors for next to nothing and shipping them all over the place. They sold them for a minor profit but because they moved so many tractors they were getting better rates from New Holland. THey also knew they didn't have to service these tractors so they didn't have to factor in the service aspect. The rest of the New Holland dealers were the ones being stuck with the bill. New Holland finally came in and listened to their dealers and made it against company policy to sell tractors over the internet like these two dealers were. One dealer went out of business instead of adapting. But the people who wanted an exceptional deal by mail ordering their tractor were upset.

These tractors are not meant to be cheap, mail order products like some of those chinese brands you see in magazines and at the Wal-Mart (in some areas). You pay more for these tractors because you have good dealers. Without the dealers you have no service. The OEM's have to balance keeping the customer and the dealers happy. Some customer would rather the dealer be unhappy to save a few dollars while the dealers generally want to keep the customer happy without hurting their bottom line.

 

[slowzuki]

I understand what you're saying Robert, but the 7% seems like its says the selling dealer can somehow provide warrantee for 7% cheaper than a non-selling dealer.

In my experience, a non-selling dealer will do as little warrantee work as possible and try to bill as much as possible. Would be 7% cheaper to mother deere if anything. The fact that it is being applied only to Cdn's and not out of state sales says it is mother deere protecting their Canadian sales network which is used to being able to sell at high prices.

I can't say anything is legally wrong with that but it sure isn't really fair. Its the same thing that gets me worked up about protecting sales turf for its dealers. If you have a crap dealer for a brand, I should be able to go to the good dealer not to far away.

 

[canoetrpr]

Personally, I think that given the advent of the internet and long distance shopping OEMs and dealers are going to have to come up with appropriate compensation for warranty work .

It actually appears to me (I don't know for sure) that the OEMs don't compensate the dealers for warranty work enough to make it worth their while. Which is why tractor OEMs and dealers are stuck with the - go to your purchasing dealer for warranty service mentatility. Car manufacturers and dealers used to be like this a while back too. That is not the case now - as far as I have experienced, car dealers are happy to do warranty work for a car that was not purchased there.

I've been bitten by this because my selling dealer sucked and often you don't know that the dealer will suck wrt. attention detail when it comes to actually getting the tractor assembled, issues addressed etc. - until well after the purchase is done. The OEM's actively discourage you going to another dealer than your selling dealer and give dealers the ability to ignore your work unless you purchased there.

I think this business model was from the 70's and 80's but it loosing its applicability given today's reality. OEMs should allow tractor dealers compete on fair selling prices and lets have them compete to get your service work, warranty or other wise by providing great service and being paid a fair price even if it is warranty work. Economies are most efficent when customers have a free and unhindered choice on where the purchase their products and services. Competition keeps the free market on its toes.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I understand what you're saying Robert, but the 7% seems like its says the selling dealer can somehow provide warrantee for 7% cheaper than a non-selling dealer.

In my experience, a non-selling dealer will do as little warrantee work as possible and try to bill as much as possible. Would be 7% cheaper to mother deere if anything. The fact that it is being applied only to Cdn's and not out of state sales says it is mother deere protecting their Canadian sales network which is used to being able to sell at high prices.

I can't say anything is legally wrong with that but it sure isn't really fair. Its the same thing that gets me worked up about protecting sales turf for its dealers. If you have a crap dealer for a brand, I should be able to go to the good dealer not to far away.

It isn't that the selling dealer can provide warranty work cheaper, it is that he doesn't have to provide warranty work so he can intentionally market and sell tractors cheaper in other area's knowing he will most likely never see the tractor again. If he screws up the prep work another dealer is going to have to fix it. If something breaks down and the warranty rate isn't high enough to cover the actual cost the non selling dealer has to eat the cost difference. Very seldom do dealers make any amount of money on warranty work. If they did there would be no problems with non-selling dealers wanting to do warranty work.

This was the problem New Holland was having and why cracked down on dealers selling over the internet. You can advertise online but you can not intentionally sell tractors in other areas via sites like Ebay. All the 7% does that Deere is charging is put the choice on the buyer. If an American wants to buy from a Candian dealer he will have to pay the 7% and vice versa for a Canadian.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Personally, I think that given the advent of the internet and long distance shopping OEMs and dealers are going to have to come up with appropriate compensation for warranty work .

It actually appears to me (I don't know for sure) that the OEMs don't compensate the dealers for warranty work enough to make it worth their while. Which is why tractor OEMs and dealers are stuck with the - go to your purchasing dealer for warranty service mentatility. Car manufacturers and dealers used to be like this a while back too. That is not the case now - as far as I have experienced, car dealers are happy to do warranty work for a car that was not purchased there.

I've been bitten by this because my selling dealer sucked and often you don't know that the dealer will suck wrt. attention detail when it comes to actually getting the tractor assembled, issues addressed etc. - until well after the purchase is done. The OEM's actively discourage you going to another dealer than your selling dealer and give dealers the ability to ignore your work unless you purchased there.

I think this business model was from the 70's and 80's but it loosing its applicability given today's reality. OEMs should allow tractor dealers compete on fair selling prices and lets have them compete to get your service work, warranty or other wise by providing great service and being paid a fair price even if it is warranty work. Economies are most efficent when customers have a free and unhindered choice on where the purchase their products and services. Competition keeps the free market on its toes.

I agree that dealers should be rewarded better for warranty work but then the price of tractors will go up. Warranty work is suppose to cover the dealers expenses, not make them money.

The main issue is dealers intentionally selling tractors for a little profit to areas where they will not have to see the tractor again. These dealers are like Wal-Mart. Sell volume more so then quality. The other dealers are not making as much money as they don't get the tractor sale but have to rely on parts sales.

 

[Harold_J]

... Warranty work is suppose to cover the dealers expenses, not make them money...

If this is the case, then you have a big problem right there. They should be entitled to a fair profit on warranty work just like regular paid work. What incentive does a dealer have to tie up his mechanics and shop space on my warranty job for no profit when they can be working on someone else's machine and turn a profit? The warranty jobs would then be shoved to the back burner, and even more so if you didn't purchase from them.

Car/truck dealers seem to love warranty work, whether you bought from them or not, so what's wrong with ag/industrial?