Canadians not welcome at JD - USA

[canoetrpr]

Robert, pricing of goods by the vendor is not sales tax. If I show up to a store to purchase a good then what business is it of the seller where I live?

I guess 'fair' is not the right word. It is certainly not condusive to an open an efficient marketplace or to the spirit of free trade and competition.

Its more like zipcodism ... Is that a word

Where I do agree with you is that if I were hungry also, I would pay extra to eat in the next district

All of this said, I am a stock holder of CAT - so who am I to complain about how they go about increasing their profits!

 

[Harold_J]

Yes, it is fair. If you do not like the policy then you choose not to deal with them...

It's not as simple as "not dealing with them" if all the major manufacturers are adopting similar policies (surcharges, warranty denials, etc), so in that respect it's not fair.

Now I will look at the other side of the coin: I know nothing about running a business in Canada vs the US, but perhaps it is just more costly to operate there. My impression of Canadian govt is that it's somewhat more socialized than the US, so maybe the CAD equipment dealers have more taxes of all kinds to pay.

You hear the same argument about the Northeast US, dealers in NY and New England saying they can't be price competitive with southern states or even rural PA. It may be true, a state like NY has everything from gross receipts tax, high unemployment insurance, high workers comp, high liability ins, property/school taxes, taxes on utilities, fuel, vehicle reg and insurance etc, etc. Look at the price of gasoline in NY, why is it 20-30 cents more than NJ? Because NY throws a big tax on and they know you can't drive to NJ just to buy gas.

In an ideal world none of this should matter and the free market would prevail. If a tractor dealer in NY can't be competitive he/she should complain to their legislators to lower their tax and regulatory burdens or go out of business, but instead they cry to New Holland or John Deere to stop print and internet advertising and sales in their territories. And in Canada they go one step more and slap a surcharge on.

 

[Villengineer]

Lets turn the situation around little bit.

If I buy a hamburger from a Macdonalds in the next district, or an impact wrench from a Home Depot on the next town, is it either fair or clearly legal for them to ask me where I reside and charge me a different price for the hamburger or impact wrench depending on where I live?

I'd venture to say that the answer to this is not clear cut and does not get any more clear cut just because the goods we are talking about is excavators and tractors.

Actually, this is quite common around here. There are 4 Lowe's within 30 minutes of my house and their prices vary significantly depending on the item. A friend of mine was the outdoor power products manager at one of them for a while, so I asked him what was up. He said that they adjust the prices on a lot of items based on the demographics of each store's "region". When I was building my house I knew which one to visit if I needed electrical supplies, another one was cheaper on lumber, and yet another one was cheapest on plumbing. Also, to use your example, it's quite common to find differences in the cost of fast food based on location. Again, within the same area there are at least 2 McDonald's that I know are more expensive than the other ones. Plus, there's one within 40 minutes that's probably on average $2 more expensive per meal than the others. Now that's because it's within a couple miles of a theme park, but it's still location based pricing.

 

[Villengineer]

It's not as simple as "not dealing with them" if all the major manufacturers are adopting similar policies (surcharges, warranty denials, etc), so in that respect it's not fair.

So far no one has stated that any of the other tractor OEMs/dealers have implemented such a policy. As such it should provide an even better price incentive to buy from them.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It's not as simple as "not dealing with them" if all the major manufacturers are adopting similar policies (surcharges, warranty denials, etc), so in that respect it's not fair.

Even if all the other OEM's decide to adopt this policy then it would be thier choice. The OEM's need to help their dealers stay viable at times as what good is owning a John Deere in Canada if you have no dealer to service it?

Are New Holland, Case-IH, Massey Ferguson, Mahindra, Kubota, Challenger and all the other brands that much more expensive in Canada then the US also?

I can see why some items are higher as here in the US, if we want to buy something "Made in the USA" we pay more then if it is made elsewhere. If the tractor is being shipped in from Italy it will come in on the East coast. From there it has to be trucked and the further it rides on the truck the more it will cost. Why some items cost more in Canada that are made in Canada could be as simple as "Canadian pride". The dealers might feel Canadian's will want to pay more for a made in Canada product just like Deere pushes the "Made in America" image here in the US.

There is also one more aspect that might affect the price. Dealers who sell more equipment tend to get better rates then smaller dealers who sell fewer pieces of equipment. There are all sorts of reasons why things cost more on both sides of the border. The one reason it isn't is that Deere is prejudice against Canadians.

I do know here in the US we have agency's that fight for us. In New York the Farm Bureau is putting their weight behing new legislation to help farmers. If there is legislation that will hurt farmers they will oppose it and put their weight behind that. We also have the option to contact our elected officials at various stages of goverment. They will look at the problem and go from there. Our local officials have been great to deal with and they will help get funding for projects or pass new regulations to meet our request. I would think Canada has to have someone up there that does the same thing. If enough people care about it then they will work to change it.

 

[gemini5362]

There are several stores that have net sales, lowes being but one example. When you log onto their web pages and look at an item they ask for your zip code so that they can show the correct price for that store. I tend to agree with several of the posters here. If a company charges more for an item then i think they should I buy from somewhere else. If I cant find something else that I like as well and it is something I feel that I have to own I just pay the high price and go on. I think it is interesting that this thread is talking about JD and their pricing but barrels of oil are at an all time record high. The Oil Companies in the United States are making record profits. The oil companies are paying record prices for their raw material and yet they are making record profits. That to me is pricing discrepencies.

 

[slowzuki]

Kubota Canada and US and different companies. The other manufacturers use US pricing with an exchange rate applied to the pricing. The regular complications apply too like price when you buy the unit etc.

 

[canoetrpr]

Villeengineer - I'm not talking about stores in a different region / district whatever having different prices than the same chain in another district.

I'm talking about a store in a different district asking you where you live and charging you MORE for the SAME product than they would if you had a differnet zip code.

Also - the cost of doing business argument is moot here. Prices for JD products, soda pop and everything else are what they are in Canada or New England based on a combination of the cost of doing business and what the market will bear. Canadian dealers for JD products charge more (and the price difference is shriking) as do dealers for all tractors in New England when compared to say ... Michigan. Local prices are what they are.

The issue of local prices being different is orthogonal to that of non trariff barriers being raised to increase the cost of cross state, cross border etc. shopping.

Simply put, if I show up to either Denny's or John Deere in Detriot Michigan - why should the price they quote me for a "Moons over my hammy" breakfast or a JD 3320 be different based on where I live - be that New England, Ontario, Canada or Timbuktoo?

 

[canoetrpr]

Robert, Kioti dealers in Canada purchase directly from Kioti USA in US $. Some dealers quote more than say a Kioti dealer in Michigan - again based on what the local market will bear and the cost of doing business.

I have also gotten quotes that are very much in line with what the rest of you would pay for a Kioti at your local dealership.

Point is, Kioti USA is not needlessly putting up a surcharge (yet for Canadians purchasing from the USA because they can pay less. Given the prices I've been quoted for Kioti in the past, locally, even though they are a bit higher, it would make no sense to do business with a dealer 100s of miles away.

 

[canoetrpr]

Kubota Canada and US and different companies. The other manufacturers use US pricing with an exchange rate applied to the pricing. The regular complications apply too like price when you buy the unit etc.

Given where Kubota prices are these days up here, it makes little to no sense to shop cross border to me... however there was a time a few months ago when they did.

Yes they are registered in their individual countries as different companies BUT they are also both wholly owned subsidaries of Kubota, Japan which is where all profits and costs are ultimately directed. So I don't think it is as simple as saying that they are different companies. The lack of cross border warranty coverage is still a non tariff barrier to free trade and while it is within the letter of the law, it sure is against the spirit of free trade and NAFTA.